This is a bad, bad sign

By Bengt Saelensminde Feb 20, 2013

Bengt Saelensminde

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Here’s a strange one for you. Bloomberg is reporting today that European new car sales have crashed hard in the last year – overall, sales are down around 10%.

But amazingly, UK punters are clamouring for new motors, with new car registrations up over 11.5% on last year! What gives?

Well, it’s often the case that Brits tend to be a little bit different than their continental counterparts – and long may that be the case. But believe me, new car sales should not be taken as an indication that the UK economy is in some way more resilient, or indeed in better shape than mainland Europe.

In fact, the way I see it, it’s quite the opposite.

The UK car market reminds me an awful lot of sub-prime in the US. I think the US obsession with new homes, financed on the never-never has more than a passing similarity with our own obsession with buying new cars. 
Indeed, I think this is a symptom of a much bigger story.

I believe punters are being duped into bad investment decisions to satisfy short-term pleasure urges, just to keep the finance industry in clover. And we are allowing this to happen because of a dangerous obsession at the heart of British society. This obsession has been festering for a few decades now. And somehow we have allowed it to take complete control of our society.

To be blunt, there are very disturbing implications for you and for me. And I’m not just talking about our investments. It’s bigger than that...

We are a nation of car renters

Just to put the UK’s 11.5% growth in new cars sales into context, consider this: Dutch sales were down 30%; and in France, Italy and Spain, sales were off about 20%. Perhaps less surprisingly Greek sales crashed by 47%. Clearly the Europeans are reacting to a harsh economic environment.

But it’s kind of shocking that the UK seems totally immune to the economic malaise engulfing the whole of the Western globe. How is it that the UK can march in such a different direction? As I’ve already suggested, it all comes down to debt.

In this country, 68% of new car sales are financed by the dealerships. On top of that, many more will have been financed by personal loans or online car loans. Car Loan 4U, the UK’s largest online car finance website reports loan completions up 76% over the last year.

It’s exactly the same situation in the second-hand forecourt arena.

The Finance and Leasing Association (FLA), the trade body for the motor finance industry, says that between April and June 2012, the value of new car finance increased by 38% compared to the same three-month period last year.

That’s up 38% in just a year!


Special report

An exclusive report from The Right Side
"Bankrupt Britain?"


Don’t look under the bonnet

To all intents and purposes, we’re becoming a nation of car renters. The way it tends to work is like this: punters put down a small deposit and pay a set monthly sum to the finance firm over three years.

At that point, the punter can choose to buy the car from the finance company – which is unlikely as they don’t have the money - or they use the negligible equity they’ve built up in the car as a deposit for a new one.

In this way, the punter never really owns the car and he’s sucked into a never-ending merry-go-round of paying interest to the finance companies. Sure, the motorist gets some relatively hassle-free motoring – but at what cost?

I don’t trust all those 0% finance deals. Consider the fact that the car will be worth 20% less the moment it drives off the forecourt, and often 40% less a year after that. Start to do the sums and you see that the real cost is nothing like 0%!

The whole situation says an awful lot about British society. What we have here is an urge to spend, an inability to save and ultimately a remarkable indifference to building up debt and propping up the financiers.

I spend a fair bit of time on the continent, and it’s quite a contrast to the UK. When I was first buying properties abroad, it was quite a shock to see the hoops you had to jump through to raise a mortgage. Having come from the UK, where the banking industry was desperate to hand out cheap and plentiful loans, it all seemed a bit backward.

And when it came to cars, second-hand prices could easily be double the UK equivalent. If only we didn’t have the steering wheel on the wrong side, it would be a fantastic business, shipping UK motors to the continent!

You see, on the continent, a second-hand car is a prized asset – and they squeeze an awful lot more miles out of the average motor. There isn’t such a fondness to take on debt and buy new.

In the UK, the fashion for new leads to a glut of three-year-old cars coming off of lease arrangements. And more often than not, those cars are sold to other punters on new finance deals – all the time enriching the dealers and finance companies.

Poor old Mr Average Brit has very little cash. He rents a new (or nearly new) car because he can’t afford to buy one outright. Rising new car sales is not a good sign. It’s a barometer on a society increasingly hooked on debt.

In fact, I’ve been thinking about this obsession ever since I watched a screening of a new MoneyWeek documentary last week. This is the first time MoneyWeek has gone to such lengths to deliver a big message to their readers.  And it made a big impression on me. I can’t help feeling that we have become dangerously complacent about the build-up of debt. And it was stunning to see the naked truth of the matter laid out for all to see in this film.

A really frightening chart

I mean just take a look at the chart below. It shows how much debt we have taken on over the last couple of decades. And the story here is of a country that has simply gone bananas. Total indebtedness has risen from just over twice the size of our economy in the '90s to over five times the size of our economy today.

Total debt as a % of GDP

Total debt as a % of GDP chart

Source: Haver Analytics National Central banks & McKinsey Global Institute

Okay, so we’re not totally alone there. As you can see, Japan is up to its eyeballs in debt too. But if you look at the trajectory of our debt build-up, I think you’ll agree, it’s rather shocking.

According to the Monetary Policy Committee's Ben Broadbent, the UK private sector is the most indebted in the world. In the world!

This is a serious problem. I think you should watch the MoneyWeek documentary when it’s released. But I’ll definitely be returning to this story in the Right Side in the coming months.

I’d like to show you how explosive I think this problem could be for Britain. And I want to show you what you could do to help protect your wealth. Because I’m certainly taking measures myself.

• This article is taken from the free investment email The Right side. Sign up to The Right Side here.

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  • 1. Orb

    (20 February 2013, 05:05PM)  Complain about this comment

    "urge to spend, an inability to save and ultimately a remarkable indifference to building up debt".... If only I'd enjoyed all those fancy new toys when times were good and built up a mountain of debt, I wouldn't be holding onto a 10 year old car & a tatty wardrobe and nearly no mortgage! I could have lived and gone bankrupt in style like so many I know!

    Instead, I took the sensible route building up a savings pot and paying down the mortgage.... and now all I have is bricks & mortar and a savings pile worth less and less in real terms every day!

    I commend those who spent & spent and racked up debt, and urge them to go bankrupt now!

  • 2. Sam Cow

    (20 February 2013, 05:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    "Coming off of leasing ..." You must have grown up in England.

  • 3. dr ray

    (20 February 2013, 05:43PM)  Complain about this comment

    Bengt,
    I suggest there may be another factor. We are now 3 or 4 years on from the gormless moron's cash-for-clunkers scheme which brought purchases forward and is now working out of the system for those who keep a car for 3 or 4 years. I had a car which I could have scrapped and many in my position would have, but I kept and it eventually petered out this winter and was replaced with a new one so there is a second group like me who got another 3-4 years out of a car rather than prematurely scrap it. The very different groups of purchasers just happened to hit the showrooms over the last year for different reasons.

  • 4. Michael

    (20 February 2013, 07:14PM)  Complain about this comment

    It may not be "a bad, bad sign". Dr Ray makes a good counter argument that economists will be familiar with. It is also possible that consumer confidence is returning. Perhaps there really are 580,000 more people employed in the UK than a year ago, per today's news, and some of those 580,000 are buying new cars. I didn't find the article very persuasive, it is one-dimensional to focus on cars, in my opinion.

  • 5. RedBaron

    (20 February 2013, 07:28PM)  Complain about this comment

    Bengt,
    Like your column but think you've got it wrong this time - with rampant inflation which is likely to increase then it makes obvious sense to buy"stuff"( such as cars) now before the price increases even further.

  • 6. Rowley

    (20 February 2013, 10:53PM)  Complain about this comment

    So buying a new car on credit is a bad thing ? Having previously worked in motor finance for 25 years I can't agree that 0% is a bad thing as car will devalue by same value irrespective of how it's bought? If you lease/PCP it then you can decide at end of contract if it is worth owning instead of at the beginning and avoid any negative equity.How many jobs would be lost if manufacturers/dealers didn't come up with affordable ways of buying a new car - not to mention the thrill! Pity rest of Europe aren't so switched on!

  • 7. Getafix

    (20 February 2013, 11:25PM)  Complain about this comment

    "Total debt as a % of GDP" - Source: Haver Analytics National Central banks & McKinsey Global Institute

    Looked up the above document: this is at least one year old! Would be interesting to see a more upto date graph. Rather than public debt+country debt I think the "country debt" alone is a better indicator. As such check out:
    http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock


    Australia/Pacific looks the best place to invest (stock markets). UK, despite recent bull market is too risky imo.

    Has anyone researched investments in low debt countries (to gdp) during a recession? Would be a great article (hint for Bengt :) )

  • 8. Alan

    (21 February 2013, 10:26AM)  Complain about this comment

    Actually Bengt, a large part of new car sales in the UK is surely the Mobility scheme? Here, we have a whole class of people on state largess, who are encouraged to use some of those benefits on a new car they probably don't need. So now we have the paradox that a whole class of people not affected in the slightest by economic conditions can afford better and newer cars than people who are working!

    Of course, for the rest of us who subsidise this, the best way is to never buy a new car and go shopping for 3-year-old low mile cars. I bought my Zafira for 2/5ths of the original price with only 7000 miles (!) on the clock. There are 1000s of bargains out there if you look!

  • 9. David

    (21 February 2013, 10:45AM)  Complain about this comment

    So that's why everyone seems to be driving around in a nearly new Audi these days! Personally I chose a BMW as I think they are a better motor - but I bought a 1.5 year old one and paid cash for it. It was difficult to pay cash (or bank transfer) and the financing deal would have been much simpler. Dealers and banks just aren't geared up for large cash purchases these days. The bank refused to transfer the full amount in one go so I had to make 3 transfers!

    Those addicted to credit have been blessed with low interest rates for many years while the rest of us who were sensible and did the 'right' thing have suffered eroding savings and lost purchasing power. It seems terribly unfair to me but eventually savers with low debt will be rewarded. Interest rates can only stay low for so long. At some point inflation will take care of that. At which point I'm sure those in debt will be throwing their toys out of the pram - or more likely selling them on eBay!!

  • 10. John

    (21 February 2013, 10:53AM)  Complain about this comment

    Bengt,
    Thanks for this, glad someone spoke out publicly, I thought I was alone in thinking the same and being very unhappy about the situation.
    One has to ask when the money for debt is going to run out, certainly QE has been a terrible policy and the resulting devaluation and inflation will continue to turn UK into a 3rd world nation.
    One has to ask how British culture and values have been so devalued in such a relatively short space of time.

  • 11. Andy

    (21 February 2013, 10:59AM)  Complain about this comment

    I think it's great that these silly people are going out to buy new cars as it creates plenty of second hand bargains for the likes of me.

    I love my performance cars and by buying 4-6 yr old cars means that recently for the price of a new ford Focus (base model) I've just purchased outright a 6 yr old Audi RS4 Avant with low miles and FSH for below book price. Which car would you rather have eh?

    Yes the tax, fuel, insurance and servicing of the RS4 will cost 2-3 times what the Focus would cost, however that is easily offset by the fact that a new Focus will loose over half of it's value (£8-9k) over the first three years of ownership. Depreciation on the RS4 is now minimal.

    Plus I'm not tied into some stupid finance deal with restricted mileage for 3 years and if circumstances change can easily and quickly sell the RS4.

    Crummy new car or brilliant 2nd hand car? It's a no-brainer.

  • 12. Robert

    (21 February 2013, 11:14AM)  Complain about this comment

    My 2c from Portugal...
    Yes, cars command a £1500 to £2500 premium in the UK (last year purchased a 9 y/o base Saxo £2500 vs. what? £500? in UK).
    I knew the wheels were going to come off when I saw 84 month car finance in the ads. That's 7 years...
    B's broadly on the mark. The banks are about pulling savings into BTL which, with a mortgage, gives them debt seignorage, while the credit is flowing into nonsecured assets with a better vig.

    I hope everyone caught Zerohedge's little crow over its tweet on Carney's appointment last year. Another Goldmanite Ctrl+P already.

  • 13. John Stringer

    (21 February 2013, 11:21AM)  Complain about this comment

    Sid and Jim are given £5000 each to buy a car. They have £320 a month to spend on cars.
    Jim gets a £10,000 loan (at 10%) with monthly payments of £320 and buys himself a £15,000 car. 3 years later he has paid off the loan and he is offered £5,000 for his 3 year old car. He is delighted, gets a new £10,000 car loan and buys himself a new £15,000 car. He continues like this for the rest of his life.
    Sid doesn't get a loan - he buys a second hand car for £5,000. The £320 a month, he invests and gets a 5% return. After 3 years it is worth £12000. He sells his car privately for £3,000 and buys a £15000 car - but it is second hand. He has no debts. 3 years later his car is worth £8000 and he has saved up another £12000. He now buys a £20000 second hand car. He still has no debts.
    He continues like this for the rest of his life. He only needs a £10000 each time, so he only pays £267 a month. He is driving a nicer car and paying £53 less a month. Three years of pain for a lifetime of gain.

  • 14. Changing Man

    (21 February 2013, 11:40AM)  Complain about this comment

    According to the SMMT figures, seems that the new generation of environmentally-friendly small fuel-efficient, low tax vehicles are proving particularly popular. You might tend to buy new to get the latest technology? Could it be that the newly-retired Baby Boomers are handing back their company car keys and making a sensible investment in lower-cost motoring?

  • 15. Les

    (21 February 2013, 12:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    The 3 years motor rental scheme, that you talk of in your article, has been in existence for nearly 12 years to my knowledge. At the time when such schemes came into existence there is no significant jump or acceleration shown on the graph above. What did happen over the bulk of the period (covered by the graph) was the enormous hike in property prices. So surely the increase in private debt would have been due to mortgage debt. There is a large number of people like me (baby boomers) who have reached the maturity date for their endowment insurances, and they too will have paid off at least a major part of their mortgage loans. This, in part, may be responsible for the flattening-off of the graph in recent years.

  • 16. Les

    (21 February 2013, 12:22PM)  Complain about this comment

    Changing Man makes a good point there. We changed cars a year ago when the comparison of the costs for replacement tyres, road tax, insurance, and most of all, fuel efficiency made it a "no brainer" to buy new.
    The comparison between countries' private debt growth is derived from the ratio of debt:GDP and so we need also to be shown the related FALL in GDP of each country because the rate of fall in GDP dictates the rate of climb in relative debt. My bet is that the UK will have had a markedly steeper decline in GDP over that period --- The reduction in North Sea oil and gas would have been a significant factor over the period shown.

  • 17. Boris MacDonut

    (21 February 2013, 12:29PM)  Complain about this comment

    Never buy a new car. Wait and buy it at a year old.
    Bengt. I get a one year old Merc' at 22% below its new price. I get to use it for 3 years for just £250 a month on a full warranty. I can then buy a 4 year old Merc' (the same car) in three years time for 15% less than the usual premium and I have the security of knowing who the previous owner was.....me. A 4 year old Merc' will perform reliably for at least another 6 years or indeed you can sell it privately and start again. What is not to like about that?
    They even let you do this with less good motors like Beemers.

  • 18. SteveBee

    (21 February 2013, 12:59PM)  Complain about this comment

    Bengt,

    I am a classic supporter of your views - but - guess what? I have just bought a new car for the first time ever! a low emissions Mini through my company with a service package. The more I look at the savings the more comfortable I am.

    There are millions of self employed out there who could potentially be going down a similar route.

    It is not all debt junkies living life on the edge - it may be there are some strong incentives driving the figures.






  • 19. JonnyP

    (21 February 2013, 01:10PM)  Complain about this comment

    I bought a nearly-new Vectra for cash, at the same time the Insignia was being released. £10k and it was totally like new. Still running it 4 years later. For fun, I bought a pristine 1959 MGA Roadster about 8 years ago. It has comfortably doubled in value, free road tax and MOT. Get yourself a classic.

  • 20. Romford Dave

    (21 February 2013, 02:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    I remember reading about Jesus trying to explain parables to the multitude.

    "But Lord" they cried, "why don't you just come right out and say what you mean?"

    The Lord smiled and said "eat your fish, God knows where the next meal is coming from".

    The disappointment of the crowd was palpable, yet what did they expect - Ullo John gotta new motor?

  • 21. David May

    (21 February 2013, 04:29PM)  Complain about this comment

    There's an awful lot of difference between borrowing to buy a capital appreciating asset such as a house and a capital depreciating asset such as a car

  • 22. Boris MacDonut

    (21 February 2013, 04:46PM)  Complain about this comment

    #21 Only it is not borrowing. It is renting a new or nearly new asset until you can afford to buy it. Have now pay later like the old furniture ads. A car is a useful and liberating,life enhancing tool that many of our forebears could not afford. Now it is a n essential part of a full life. Now if you were borrowing for say a holiday or a wedding with just a 40% chance of success that is another matter.
    Also most of the debt Bengt harps on aboput is corporate or bank debt. Personal debt has only risen from 50% to 90% of GDP

  • 23. 4caster

    (21 February 2013, 05:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    Bengt, our steering wheels are not on the wrong side; they are on the right side.
    We are in good company: India, Japan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia (surprisingly!), Malaysia, Hong Kong, Ireland, all of Australasia and much of Africa drive on the left too.
    A friend of mine in Singapore has a lovely well-maintained 2003 right hand drive Lexus, probably with another decade of life in it. But he is willing to give it away, to anyone who will export it! Cars over 10 years old are not allowed in Singapore, nor will they allow any more onto their roads. Before you can buy a new car you have either to scrap or export an old one.

  • 24. Bapodra Investments

    (21 February 2013, 08:21PM)  Complain about this comment

    Someone famous once said always buy things which go up in value. So for example houses over the long term generally go up in value so you would purchase it. That very same famous person said you should always lease or rent something that goes down in value. So for example majority of cars go down in value whether they are brand new or second hand. Brand new one's go down more in the first three years so really you should always PCP a brand new car. Therefore you are only paying the depreciation over a three year period and driving the brand new car without paying for it in full. So for example a £30,000.00 Mercedes or BMW would be say around £300-£400 per month. It is better to pay this for a 3 year period rather than pay upfront the £30,000.

  • 25. NeutronWarp9

    (22 February 2013, 12:47AM)  Complain about this comment

    Falling car sales - depression. Doom, doom, doom. Static car sales - no growth. A grave concern. Rising car sales - great ne..ah, no...bad, bad news. You know it makes sense. Talk about crying wolf.
    My favourite Jesus line (well, JCS) is, 'to conquer death you only have to die.' As clear as mud for most but it makes more sense than this Bengt piece.

  • 26. MikeMtd

    (22 February 2013, 01:57AM)  Complain about this comment

    Nothing strange at all about car sales in these times. What is strange is that you don't seem to have grasped how cars have been sold for decades now in the US and more recently in the UK. New cars are not bought because new cars are desperately needed and the particular models bought are not always the models desired; the new vehicles that are bought are bought because finance, ie credit, has been made available to the purchasers. Credit is how you sell such products and our mostly irrational production-consumption system is celebrated.

  • 27. Evilc

    (22 February 2013, 09:46AM)  Complain about this comment

    I think you should breakdown the peoples ages who are purchasing the cars as I think this would be interesting. I used to purchase cars outright until I realised how much you lose over the four year period for me it was £20,000. So for me leasing was the answer I know how much I will lose. Whilst at the garage the purchasers seemed to be older rather than younger so maybe they want to know how much they will lose.??

  • 28. JREwing

    (22 February 2013, 10:43AM)  Complain about this comment

    Bengt,

    Is that chart correct? Does it include the debts of the financial institutions? I think if you include those, the UK's ratio rises above 900 percent.

    regards,

    JR

  • 29. JDCambo

    (22 February 2013, 01:13PM)  Complain about this comment

    Has anyone thought that the new 13 plates will be coming out soon and that some people will consider this to be unlucky and brought forward purchases

  • 30. Alex

    (23 February 2013, 11:32PM)  Complain about this comment

    This is no more than a mentality issue. Try to pay for goods in Germany with a credit card. Oh, no, this is not accepted. OK, debt card? In some places not accepted either as one needs to have debit card EC2 (German issued debit card).
    The above example just tells you how undeveloped the consumer finance market is in a developed European country.

    BTW, in 2009 when the UK car market was in the doldrums, European car markets were stronger. Many people with the left hand drive cars were selling them to European cars with a good profit.
    The disconnection of the UK and European markets has been always there.

  • 31. NG2 Will

    (24 February 2013, 01:41PM)  Complain about this comment

    Car finance is a virus we've caught from the US where car manufacturers were more accurately described as banks that happened to make cars (albeit mostly bad ones!).

    I've got a 11 year old car bought outright when it was 4 and feel the pressure to get somethign glossy and new, even though I know this stuff, Which? recommends Mondeo's on lease, but no other deal.

    Private debt particularly bank debt, that is money owed BY banks, is a huge problem and paying it down is sucking money/demand out of the economy, cutting spending, cutting output, cutting employment, cutting incomes in a vicious debt deflationary depression death spiral (see what I did there? ;-) ).

    The cause of this is financial de-regulation and theft of labour productivity from workers to the rich by increasing real wages less than the increase in labour productivity as shown here; http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=13193

  • 32. NG2 Will

    (24 February 2013, 01:46PM)  Complain about this comment

    There are good graphs on debt/financial balances here, updated quarterly.

    http://www.3spoken.co.uk/search?updated-max=2013-01-02T11:56:00Z&max-results=7

  • 33. Boros MacDonut

    (24 February 2013, 03:07PM)  Complain about this comment

    Bengt. You should not have toyed with a business you don't understand. The UK's most successful, wheeler-dealer entrepreneur, Uncle Bernie Ecclestone, cut his teeth plying dubious motors off Tottenham Court Road in the 1950's.Leave the difficult economics to the big boys.

  • 34. bengt

    (24 February 2013, 08:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    Boris

    I always enjoy your input - but I have to say, I don't understand your point in this case.

    For sure, the public/private sector debt figures can be manipulated to make many a political point... but I just can't see UK debt heading in anywhere other than into dangerous territory.

    And as for borrowing for motors... well, this is borrowing against a depreciating asset. It makes little financial sense.

    As for my knowledge on the motor retail industry, I've been fortunate enough to have had a bit of an inside track on this one - I feel comfortable commenting on the issue.

    Please feel free to tell me what I'm missing.

    bengt




  • 35. Boris MacDonut

    (24 February 2013, 09:20PM)  Complain about this comment

    #34 Bengt. I'm merely commenting on how your well intentioned and perhaps innocent article has stirred a mini hornets nest, a wide variety of "what is best" ideas.
    I use Uncle Bernie to show that the world of car sales is difficult, dodgy and can be hugely rewarding to the right sort of character.
    You should read Tim Bower's book "No Angel" about Uncle Bernie's life, Ecclestone is a brilliant investor and a massively manipulative and charmless individual too.
    I do not accept that a lot of the finance packages are borrowing, they are more like renting and cars offer liberation and opportunity to many. Fact is people love their cars and will do almost anything to get one ,including what you rightly point to as poor investment decisions.

  • 36. bengt

    (24 February 2013, 09:42PM)  Complain about this comment

    Boris

    Thanks for that... Unfortunately I'm still not entirely sure of the point you're making...

    The point I made (and what it seems you say too?) is that we've become a nation of car renters. The nation is upto the eyeballs in debt!

    Did you have a chance to see the follow-up to this article?

    b


  • 37. Boris MacDonut

    (24 February 2013, 11:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    #36 Bengt. I do not accept we are up to our eyeballs in debt. Car renting is a perfectly sensible choice and much less "wasteful" than say borrowing for a holiday.Even then using cheap borrowing to have use of an italian villa for two weeks ( that you could never afford the use of for 52 weeks) is a sound use of borrowings. MW keeps telling us we are doomed. I do not buy into that. Borrowing has got progressively cheaper since 1992 and shows few signs of going much higher for at least another decade. People should be borrowing more while it is cheap, when it gets too expensive some or all will have to be written off.
    After the way the finance world has treated ordinary folk, why should we care?

  • 38. COMMONSALT

    (25 February 2013, 09:47AM)  Complain about this comment

    Spending your own money or saving it and letting someone else
    spend it seems not to the point when considering Britain's debt

    IF BRITAIN DOESNT SPEND IT THEN ANOTHER COUNTRY WILL SPEND IT
    Total world GDP has to be spent somewhere - If someone is storing their savings in eg gold then money not spent will lead to recession

  • 39. cinderfella

    (25 February 2013, 03:58PM)  Complain about this comment

    Seems to me that Money week would rather have the Brits riding around on donkeys. Anything more & it's classified as a bad thing!

  • 40. Boris MacDonut

    (25 February 2013, 07:49PM)  Complain about this comment

    #39cinderfella. MW has a vested interest in talking the UK down and seeking to exploit any perceived weakness. It has nothing to do with reality, just a misplaced pessimism garnished with greed.

  • 41. Boris MacDonut

    (25 February 2013, 07:49PM)  Complain about this comment

    #39cinderfella. MW has a vested interest in talking the UK down and seeking to exploit any perceived weakness. It has nothing to do with reality, just a misplaced pessimism garnished with greed.

  • 42. Mike Ogilvie

    (26 February 2013, 03:13PM)  Complain about this comment

    A response from a motor dealer friend:

    He’s a bit of a doom and gloom merchant isn’t he.........The reason why car finance deals are up by 38% is because money is much cheaper and manufacturers pay less to subsidise low interest and interest free loans.

    New car sales are up this year but it’s at the cost of late used car sales, manufacturers can’t afford to churn 1000’s of cars at huge discounts through rental companies any more, so there are less late used cars around pushing up there residuals. On many occasions to a finance customer it works out cheaper to buy a new car on 0% than buy a late used car and pay the 5% interest, over a five year loan the actual interest they pay is 25%.

    Thanks for sending me the article Michael, drop the bloke a line and tell him he is talking !?!? :-)

  • 43. bengt

    (26 February 2013, 11:33PM)  Complain about this comment

    Mike
    thanks for your mate's input (he of the industry). Yet, he starts off on the wrong foot. Saying that car industry finance has made it easier for punters to turn toward credit this year (up 38%) seems to ignore that credit has been cheap for at least 3, or 4 years!

    From then on his argument seems to be the same as my own. That is, nearly new (he calls them 'late') models are trading at high prices, as there aren't many about.

    And that makes it better to buy new cars. And if you can get them for a song - then you can, indeed resale for much the same as your purchase price....

    Yes - I agree!

    As for his maths on how 5% interest amounts to a total of 25% over five years, I think that just about sums up the problem I'm trying to outline here! (especially when you consider that this loan is against a depreciating asset)

    Bengt

  • 44. ColinArt

    (27 February 2013, 01:15AM)  Complain about this comment

    New car sales in the UK are only up because of the weak GBP. Cars are being exported en masse to the far east where they drive on the left side of the road. There's probably not much more to it than that.

  • 45. Peter R French

    (04 March 2013, 01:14PM)  Complain about this comment

    Britains obsession with cars is costly mistake and misuse of resources. 85% of all cars are imported. We have the worst balance of payments deficit in the world so why encourage our banks to squander money on financing purchase of new imported cars. That money should have been used to invest in industry and exports to close the trade deficit. Government should demand a 50% deposit from purchaser, ban car leasing and all ban company owned cars, but allow an adequate car allowance for business use at say 50p per mile. Once 75% of cars sold are made here then maye reconsider. My last 4 UK made cars all managed over 150,000 miles. Lies about UK cars being unreliable are just foreign propaganda designed to economically destroy us. Time for common sense. We cannot go on for ever buying from abroad from countries that dont buy from us and selling all our assets to pay for the imports.

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