Britain has taken another step down the road to hyperinflation

By MoneyWeek Editor John Stepek Nov 12, 2012

John Stepek

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Wouldn’t it be great if your mortgage lender made a snap decision one day to stop charging you interest on your home loan?

You’d think Christmas had come early.

Better yet, imagine if your bank manager then decided that it also made sense to give you back all the interest you’d paid on your mortgage so far.

That would make budgeting for the next few years a lot easier. You might even feel inspired to splash out on a few unexpected treats.

Of course, this sort of improbable windfall is a complete fantasy for any normal person. But not for the chancellor of the UK, George Osborne.

Because this is exactly what Sir Mervyn King, the nation’s bank manager, has just done for him…

The government’s tasty £35bn windfall

As a result of quantitative easing (QE), the UK government owes the Bank of England a lot of money.

Since March 2009, the Bank has printed enough money to buy up around a quarter of the government’s total outstanding debt. It now holds £375bn in British government IOUs, (also known as gilts). 

So what’s it been doing with the interest payments on that debt? Nothing really. Up until now, the money has just been sitting in a bank account (called the ‘Asset Purchase Facility’, or APF). By March next year, the Bank will have racked up £35bn in interest payments.

Or rather, it would have, if the government hadn’t just snatched the lot.

The way George Osborne sees it, it’s stupid (or ‘economically inefficient’) for the Treasury to pay interest to the Bank of England. After all, it means the government has to borrow more money to do so.

The argument goes that the taxpayer stands behind the APF. So the government will have to make up for any losses the Bank of England incurs when it eventually sells its gilts (or it would get any profits, if there were any).

So rather than pay interest on the loans today, it makes more sense to use that money now to reduce the overall debt.

As Jeremy Warner describes it in The Telegraph, the current system is “a bit like the government taking out an overdraft to pay money into a savings account – not very sensible given that you pay a lot for the overdraft but get virtually nothing back from the savings account.”

And it only brings the UK in line with the other money-printing nations. The US and Japan do it like this already.

So – all you Weimar Republic scaremongers out there – what’s the big deal?

This is money printing to benefit the government, not the economy

Well, let me explain.

The point of QE – we’re told – is to get more money flowing around the economy somehow, and so prevent deflation. Whether you agree with that end goal or not is by the by. The point is, it’s just an extension of what the Bank of England tries to do with interest rates.

The Bank is swapping gilts for cash to clear a blockage, if you will. Gilts just happen to be the most sensible asset to buy. At some point in the future, when monetary policy tightens, the Bank will sell the gilts again.

What the Bank is explicitly NOT doing – we’re told – is writing the government a blank cheque to spend as it pleases. It’s not the Bank’s job to make it easier for the government to borrow money and repay its debts.

To use the jargon, monetary policy and fiscal policy have been kept separate.

There’s a good reason for that: if the Bank was simply printing money to fund future government spending, that would really be the road to Weimer or Harare.


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We’re at the start of a very slippery slope

The Treasury is trying to make out that this is still the case. The taxpayer stands behind the APF. If the Bank of England makes a loss on these gilts in the future, the government will have to make it good. So it’s just shuffling money around in a pot that it’s going to be responsible for in the end anyway.

But there’s a problem here. Firstly, the Bank of England didn’t make this decision, the Treasury did. So it shows that the idea that the Bank is independent of the government, and so acting as a responsible guardian of our currency, is a complete fiction.

Secondly, this is very convenient for Osborne. Having an extra £35bn will make it that bit easier to hit his targets for reducing Britain’s national debt. He still may not hit his target, but it’s going to be slightly less embarrassing when he delivers his autumn statement next month.

It’s clear that this government learned a great deal from Gordon Brown. Loudly set yourself important-sounding targets, then use underhanded accounting trickery when it looks as though you’ll fail to meet them.

Thirdly, the move is the same as doing more QE, as Mervyn King acknowledges. The private sector will hold fewer gilts and more cash as a result of these deals. So the Bank is effectively printing more money. But this time, it’s at the orders of the Treasury, not the bank’s rate-setting committee.

As Jens Larsen of RBC Capital Markets points out, “the fact is that these transactions will have a clear impact on debt and deficit, and materially impact the government’s debt management policy… it conflates monetary, fiscal and debt management policies.”

In other words, this move takes some pressure off the government’s efforts to cut the debt, and it’s driven by the Treasury. It’s money-printing done to benefit the government’s finances, not the economy.

You can’t trust the government to repay debts it can write off instead

More importantly, do you really believe the government will ever pay this money back? Of course it won’t.

If the APF makes a loss in the future, the government will just write it off. Who’s going to complain? Will the Bank of England call in the bailiffs? Of course not.

This is no accounting shuffle – it’s monetising the deficit, pure and simple.

It’s the start of a slippery slope. What’s the next step? Given the recent talk of cancelling the gilts the Bank of England owns altogether (‘helicopter money’), I’ll be interested to see what happens next year to the Bank’s current holdings as they mature.

You’d assume they’d roll it over – buy more gilts with the proceeds. But what if the government decides it could use that cash more wisely too? The Treasury could just pretend to add that to its tab at the Bank of England.

The yield on gilts fell on the news (ie prices rose) because there will be fewer of them around. But we suspect the pound’s reaction, when all this sinks in, won’t be at all positive.

We suggested last month that sterling is in for tougher times, since when it has fallen below $1.60. This seems likely to continue. And it still seems a very good idea to us to have gold in your portfolio. We’ll be looking at the implications of all this in more detail in the next issue of MoneyWeek magazine, out on Friday. If you're not already a subscriber, get your first three copies free here.

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  • 1. JREwing

    (12 November 2012, 10:51AM)  Complain about this comment

    "when monetary policy tightens"

    Keep dreaming.

  • 2. Peter Kellow

    (12 November 2012, 10:55AM)  Complain about this comment

    Excellent article. I followed it all until the word "monetising". There is no link to an explanation as with other terms

    This word is used a lot in different contexts. I have found several definitions for it and none ever make any sense.

    Anybody out there know what it means?

  • 3. Ian B

    (12 November 2012, 11:26AM)  Complain about this comment

    I am not an economist & find this hard to follow as I can't distinguish between the Treasury & BOE which are both Government controlled.

    If the BOE simply cancelled the £375bn of Gilts that they owned, then
    - the Government would be £375bn less in debt which would improve their credit rating (the same as if HSBC wrote off our mortgage but no chance of that)
    - the Government would be £35bn pa better off by not paying interest, which could facilitate tax breaks for companies & individuals, thereby stimulating the economy.

    Please could somebody explain what I am missing - Thanks.

  • 4. Clive

    (12 November 2012, 11:43AM)  Complain about this comment

    @ Ian B

    I don't think you're missing much at all. My understanding is that it's illegal for the Treasury to buy government bonds (gilts) directly, so the "independent" BoE does it. They're so independent that Osborne snaffles the £35bn.

    One of the advantages of a country being able to print its own currency is that if it has sold (say) £20bn of gilts to the Chinese and the economy is in trouble, that country can simply print £20bn of new money and say "there you go, there's your money back"

    Only problem is that the holder of the gilts has been repaid in a devalued currency.

    I disagree with John Stepek on this being a cause of hyperinflation. Good article in (I think) the FT the other week showing that nearly all cases of hyperinflation follow the breakdown of society (e.g. after wars, be they between countries or civil wars)

  • 5. somersdave

    (12 November 2012, 11:44AM)  Complain about this comment

    This deceitful, debt based game is a major root of our problems.

    We have central banks creating money, backed by nothing - other than the enslavement of the taxpayer - out of nothing, on which we pay interest. Yes, the economy needs 'money' but for some reason, after early 2000s, Brown stood aside and allowed its creation to 'explode'.

    The BoE was set up by private investors (to 'help' the gov.) who lied about their initial investment, for the purpose of their own enrichment. What the 'independent' bank is now - somewhere between private and nationalised - is the source of much conspiracy theory. Whatever the case, it clearly hasn't been able to maintain a stable economy. The FED (modelled on the BoE ) is owned by unnamed banks/and individuals?

    For privately owned central banks, the more expensive the problems created - war is jackpot - the more is the profit (or political gain)

  • 6. Wotan

    (12 November 2012, 11:47AM)  Complain about this comment

    Good article by John Stepek. The dangers of this policy cannot be overrated, as it will most probably become a permanent component of government policy from now on. When the government repays bonds given to the BoE for the purpose of raising money, i.e. QE, this money will actually be inexcess of the normal money supply, which, strictly speaking, means that it should be destroyed by the BoE. Alternatively, the BoE could freeze this money indefinitely in order to remove its inflationary sting. However, it is most unlikely that either with happen and the government will therefore either pocket the money or cancel the gilts, with either measure producing the same effect. This is a very convenient way for our basically immoral politicians to fudge the books and I am convinced that they will continue to make liberal use of this very tempting arrangement with Weimar or Harare being the ultimate destination.

  • 7. Peter Kellow

    (12 November 2012, 12:00PM)  Complain about this comment

    The hyperinflation scare is used suggesting that inflationary policies lead to hyperinflation.

    But the difference between inflation and hyperinflation is qualitative not quantitative. Inflation does not lead to hyperinflation because they are quite different things

    For hyperinflation to happen the government has to print money TO PAY FOREIGN DEBT. The Weimar republic had to pay absurd reparations to the Allies and did this by printing its own currency. Mugabe wrecked the Zimbabwe economy and printed money to pay for imports.

  • 8. Carl J

    (12 November 2012, 12:09PM)  Complain about this comment

    Ian B

    At the moment there is a belief (which dies a little each day) that the BoE's £375bn of Gilts represents a valuable claim on the full faith and credit of the United Kingdom. If the BOE cancelled the debt then it would finally be clear to everyone that the money they originally created to buy it was nothing but paper - the same as the paper in your wallet. The value of the pound would quickly fall to reflect its (now permanent) increased supply.

    If you find this hard to picture, don't worry. It will actually happen one day and then we'll all get to see it play out for real.

  • 9. Critic Al Rick

    (12 November 2012, 12:15PM)  Complain about this comment

    Quote John:
    "Firstly, the Bank of England didn't make this decision, the Treasury did."

    John, how can you be so sure of this statement?

    In consideration of the amount of corruption out there, no amount of deception from those quarters would surprise me.

    It would certainly surprise me, for one, if the BoE were NOT independent of the Government. Anyhow, the notion that the BoE are "acting as a responsible guardian of OUR currency" seems to me to be "a complete fiction"; acting in the best interests of the Banksters, would seem more appropriate to me.

    The corruption by the greedy has gone on for far too long; the economies of the West, failing suitable miracles, are in reality already on their irreversible way down a slippery slope as their currencies irretrievably decline in World rankings.

    @ 2. Peter

    Could the above decline be associated with so-called 'monetising'?

  • 10. Neil

    (12 November 2012, 12:18PM)  Complain about this comment

    If Labour did this, they would never hear the end of it!

    If the Chancellor declares in his Autumn statement that the low interest rate is vindication that the market supports the government without revealing that the BOE effectively is the gilt market, I think everyone should just switch over to the cartoons on CBBC.

    I wish this car crash would speed up.

  • 11. Romford Dave

    (12 November 2012, 12:33PM)  Complain about this comment

    The definitions work for me Peter K, but then I tend to think of it as word play, except with money.

    A monigram maybe?

    IOU becomes UOI

    It appears little has changed, but not only have we transfered the debt, we've doubled the number of words in circulation.

    Where the definition struggles is there's no concealing the original mistake of treating something that's worthless as something with worth, but history shows time is a great healer especially for sufferers of short memories and CBs everywhere are hoping that this time it isn't different.

  • 12. simpleton

    (12 November 2012, 12:36PM)  Complain about this comment

    QE so far has had much less inflationary impact than one might have thought, why? It's because the inflation associated with QE has ALREADY OCCURRED. Did nobody notice the great inflation up to 2007/2008? Houses becoming grotesquely overvalued? The falling price of real estate both here and around the world left huge black holes on bank balance sheets. QE is fake money to fill these gaping chasms, with more to come. It represents the setting in stone of the inflation that occurred in that period and is thus intergenerational theft on a massive scale as it forces the young to pay (if they can) huge amounts just to put a roof over their heads.

  • 13. PJ

    (12 November 2012, 12:38PM)  Complain about this comment

    I wonder if the reaction to this is resulting in the increase in my Gold price

  • 14. Jo

    (12 November 2012, 12:57PM)  Complain about this comment

    @2 Ian

    Does this prove that the BOE is in fact privately owned? Probably, with their partner, the government.

    I find all this QE and borrowing schemes very confusing, but maybe is that what it is supposed to do. Confuse people so that the 2 partners can get away with our money.

    Thanks to #12 Simpleton for that explanation. The sleight of hand is indeed usually done at the beginning of the trick. However, is their long term goal the taking over/buying out whole countries I wonder?

  • 15. George P

    (12 November 2012, 01:13PM)  Complain about this comment

    Great article John. I'm not sure we will get the hyperinflation you mention due to an earlier comment about debts owed to foreigners (although I'm not disputing with you and it is a distinct possibility). Just an abnormally high level of inflation (say 15-20%) would be enough to kill most of the midclass anyway and most definitely the poor. In my opinion a severely high level of inflation would be worse than hyperinflation since with a high inflation figure most of society would be crushed and things would just carry on as normal with no one battering an eyelid. Atleast with a hyperinflation scenario (given the outright potentially bloody consequencesof this) there would be a real possibility of changes to the system. Although it could go to the other extreme and result in something similar to nazi-germany. But maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing (minus ethnic tensions) since it's britains current satellite state status to foreign power that is behind our troubles.

  • 16. Jon

    (12 November 2012, 01:15PM)  Complain about this comment

    Non-payment of interest on a bond sounds like debt default to me.

    "Having an extra £35bn will make it that bit easier to hit his targets for reducing Britain’s national debt." - Surely you mean "reducing this years deficit" as until the annual deficit is eradicated and turned into a surplus, the debt is only going to increase.

  • 17. guest 32

    (12 November 2012, 01:17PM)  Complain about this comment

    Monetising = making the imaginary cash transactions real. In effect moving towards actually paying for stuff rather than saying you are paying for stuff.

    I think people are starting to realise that printing money doesn't help. the only thing that helps is exporting roughly the same as you import. Too much importing and you owe someone else more money. Too little importing and either your currency ballons too high (e.g. Norway) or you invest in overseas government bonds. At some point these imbalances break.

    The worst thing to do is a policy that continues down the same path: QE encourages more importing for the UK, not less. So we are stuffed in the end. Either hyper-inflation or huge deflation (stop QE and have a recession/depression). Which one do you want? At least a depression/deflation means your savings are preserved. Inflation helps the indebted. The UK is indebted so will take hyper-inflation. Germany has savings so would prefer a depression.

  • 18. Impromptu

    (12 November 2012, 01:36PM)  Complain about this comment

    Playing the pedant here, it's "by the BYE".

    Sorry, but once these homonyms gain traction they're harder to shift than a QE programme.

  • 19. Moderator

    (12 November 2012, 02:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    Impromptu - both are correct.

    http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bye

  • 20. Jim C

    (12 November 2012, 02:40PM)  Complain about this comment

    Comparisons with Weimar are problematic. Back then, money was tightly linked to gold; when you ran a trade deficit, or paid off debt (in this case, war reparations) to foreign creditors, gold actually left the country.

    Now, we have an 'endogenous' money supply - all the money in our economy springs into existence when the commercial banks within the BoE's payment and settling system extend credit. When we run a trade deficit, it just means that GBP that had previously been owned by British people is now in the hands of whomever i is overseas that we've purchased goods from. The GBP has not been destroyed (this can only happen by paying off debt); it's just changed hands, and, furthermore, they can only 'spend' it on goods denominated in sterling.

  • 21. Jim C

    (12 November 2012, 02:44PM)  Complain about this comment

    What happens when the BoE creates money to buy government debt, is that the existing capital represented by the previous money stock is diluted by the new money being spent into the economy by the government. In a sense, it is a form of taxation, in the sense that the government is extracting value from currency holders; but, unlike spending funded by actual taxation (which sucks money out of the economy) it is inflationary.

  • 22. Jim C

    (12 November 2012, 02:47PM)  Complain about this comment

    Furthermore, QE is extracting value from currency holders and giving it to the very people (government and financial services companies) who have already proven they are incompetent stewards of our wealth.

    Essentially, this leads to further misallocation of capital, further distortion of our economy, further masking of price discovery, and makes the rest of us poorer.

    But if you're in (or immediately downstream from) the government or financial services... it's an unearned bonanza. Wheeee!

  • 23. jrj90620

    (12 November 2012, 04:33PM)  Complain about this comment

    Fascist Democracies(big govt run by voters) are, ultimately,in the hands of voters,who are short term greedy and long term stupid.That's the reason govts can get away with this nonsense.If citizens didn't demand "something for nothing"(greed) and had any understanding of money ,this wouldn't happen.

  • 24. Boris MacDonut

    (12 November 2012, 05:16PM)  Complain about this comment

    Oh, the financial incompetence of the Tories. There we were in April 2010 waiting for the Etonians to take over and put the finances right. But 930 days later we find the Government debt is £350 billion higher than under the spendthrift Gordon Brown,with a predicted £120billion more to come next year.
    The toffs are so hopeless they resort to cooking the books.

  • 25. John Stepek

    (12 November 2012, 05:24PM)  Complain about this comment

    @2 Peter: ‘monetising’ the debt basically just means “the central bank printing money to pay off the government debt”. Sorry for using jargon, I usually try to avoid it.

    @3 Ian B: Carl J (at post 8) answers your question well, as does Jim C (20,21,22). You’re right about the Treasury and the BoE – QE means that the government is effectively writing itself a cheque. But the official line is that QE is designed to make banks lend more, not to fund public spending with printed money. That’s why the BoE hasn’t cancelled the gilts it holds. If the BoE does cancel the £375bn of gilts outright, you’ve effectively said that the UK government can spend what it wants and just get the BoE to print money to pay for it. How much value would sterling retain if that was the case? I know I wouldn’t want to hang on to it…

    @12 simpleton: nicely put.

  • 26. Boris MacDonut

    (12 November 2012, 05:58PM)  Complain about this comment

    #25. John is correct here QE was meant to encourage bank lending,not fund public Government spending. Either way, using the word hyperinflation in the context of the UK is ridiculous. We'll be lucky if inflation even touches 1% in a years time.

  • 27. jack

    (12 November 2012, 07:24PM)  Complain about this comment

    you really think so Borris?

    Its like paying one credit card with another and using the nectar points to survive until the next election!

    That's Ok until a big unwanted (but not unexpected) bill comes in, the collapse of the eurozone

  • 28. Bob Welham

    (12 November 2012, 11:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    What do the sellers of gilts under QE do with the money they receive from the BoE? Most of the sellers, we are told, are non-banks such as pension funds and insurance companies. I suspect that the bulk of their QE money is promptly spent to buy newly issued gilts from the DMO.

    If so then QE is being used to sidestep Maastricht restrictions which prevent the BoE from buying directly new gilts. The QE money goes first to the pension funds etc., then to the Treasury, then out into the general economy via the usual public spending programmes.

  • 29. tom11

    (13 November 2012, 01:13AM)  Complain about this comment

    @ ianb, you're not missing anything.

    An economy is built on confidence and trust. If you as a person or a business work to earn money, then you find one group of people are effectively counterfeiting money in a warehouse (legally) and using it to spend money freely in an economy, are you and every other person not going to start questioning the value of the pieces of paper in your wallet that you worked so hard to earn?

  • 30. Toppo

    (13 November 2012, 01:42PM)  Complain about this comment

    The BOE has some delvolved independence but its still part of the state apparatus. The Treasury owing money to the BOE is like a wife owing money to her husband. It isn't a real debt - get over it.

  • 31. Beta adjusted

    (13 November 2012, 03:03PM)  Complain about this comment

    Of course its a real debt. Money printed = default by government on obligation to me as denoted by the pound notes in my bank account. If the government is bankrupt and thus monetizes the debt rather than trying to pay its obligations to me (and others) via taxes, then why should I use this currency? it is not a good store of value. Thats why I don't. I'm invested left right and center and keep a bare minimum in cash because I no longer have any faith in its long term value. You might think I'm bonkers but history suggests I'm not and many more are beginning to agree. That is the first stage of hyperinflation: when people stop using the currency.

  • 32. Orb

    (13 November 2012, 09:38PM)  Complain about this comment

    For anyone interested, this book got a good review on BBC R4 today:

    "Treasure Island: Tax Havens and the Men who Stole the World - Nicholas Shaxson"

  • 33. Boris MacDonut

    (13 November 2012, 10:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    #32 Orb. I read it last year . Bought four copies and gave them to various pals. It made me very cross indeed but was mighty informative, I cannot recommend it highly enough. You'll never visit Jersey again after you've read it.

  • 34. cliff hanger

    (14 November 2012, 11:13AM)  Complain about this comment

    This was predicted in July by market analyst Nadeen Walayat (link attached). The article also points out that the government/BoE will try all manner of shenanigans and sleight of hand trickery to surreptitiously implement this (ongoing) policy.

    http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article35687.html

  • 35. Mark Olive

    (14 November 2012, 01:48PM)  Complain about this comment

    I do not see any difference in the BoE providing an interest free loan of £350b or cancelling that debt completely. The free money is in circulation in both cases and the currency has already effectively been devalued.

    Since the currency has remained relatively stable following this cash injection I would suggest that the economy was in need of this increase in money supply to prevent a deflationary spiral and that a further extension of QE would be prudent.

  • 36. Romford Dave

    (14 November 2012, 03:30PM)  Complain about this comment

    That's an extremely optimistic view of things Mark.

    I suspect you could be pursuaded to subscribe to the view that the £375B figure 'loaned' out to buy Gilts and shown on the BoE's balance sheet as an asset could be used as future collateral?

    The BoE opines that by buying up gilts from private individuals and pension companies (circumventing banks) the same individuals and companies would use the money to buy other things thus stimulating the economy.

    Its widely reported that rather than pension companies taking up the baton and why would they, they've got pensioners to worry about, it was foreign holders of UK gilts that were the net sellers.

    Where do you think they spent all their newly aquired £1's?

    Maybe here : -

    http://www.savills.co.uk/_news/newsitem.aspx?intSitePageId=72418&intNewsSitePageId=118287-0&intNewsMonth=2&intNewsYear=2012

    Is that good for UK plc?

    I don't think so.

  • 37. Mark Olive

    (14 November 2012, 04:42PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dave, the QE experiment has indeed helped to stabilise the uk property market. Do you feel that a collapse in property values would be beneficial to the UK economy?

  • 38. jack

    (14 November 2012, 07:23PM)  Complain about this comment

    Mark,

    It seems to be helping the US!

  • 39. Romford Dave

    (14 November 2012, 07:25PM)  Complain about this comment

    Collapse is an unnecessarily emotive term Mark, reversion to mean is a much better description, and something that has occurred a number of times in my lifetime and the world hasn't ended.

    I'd also be reluctant to call it a stabilising of house prices if Savilles article is anything to go by, it looks like a few hotspots have become the whimsy of the wealthy, not exactly beneficial for the hoi polloi.

    IMHO and it is only an opinion as higher pay grades than me are wrestling with the problem; if you've decided to walk the QE route it needed to be targeted at something different than just the hope that (some) people would boost their spending because they felt wealthier, when it would appear that it's only really benefitted the wealthy amongst us, folk who it might be said, are not the best at encouraging the velocity of money given that their prone to squirrelling it away.

  • 40. jack

    (14 November 2012, 08:08PM)  Complain about this comment

    Romford,

    Then maybe the goverment should think about serving the "hoi polloi" rather than the rich before they are voted out of existance!

    The Greeksvotes are getting closer and closer to that point.

    A tax on second properties would be a start.

  • 41. THE COMMON MAN

    (14 November 2012, 08:27PM)  Complain about this comment

    Simpleton-I have a feeling you are right.What we would have had after 2008 was deflation and to some extent that would have corrected our problems-eg goods cheaper so people can buy more of them-but QE is all about preventing that deflation.
    Should we allow our govt to spend more than it earns in tax?
    (What a difference that would make if it was in our constitution-sorry I forgot we dont have one!)

  • 42. Romford Dave

    (14 November 2012, 08:36PM)  Complain about this comment

    £200B out of the current £375B QE had been 'printed' under the previous Labour government Jack, what makes you think a change of colour will make any difference?

    Whatever you might think about them, landlords provide an important service, although if the state prop is taken away, the allure of landlordism may be dulled.

    Let's see how the Coalition's housing benefit cap pans out. Maybe it'll act as a limit on rental yields making BTL a little less attractive and give some downward pressure on house prices to a point where buying becomes sensibly affordable. Personally I think the cap's set too high, but that's another issue.

    The answer doesn't always have to be more tax!

  • 43. jack

    (14 November 2012, 09:23PM)  Complain about this comment

    I agree Romford (in part) but as I pointed out before the US is alot better place than England now!

    Not only did the US fool hearty make a loss from property but also the bank share holders!

    The worst thing iv ever heard is "everything is relative" what a load of b%%%%% and fool hearty british fell for it!

    I will survive but will my children?

  • 44. Orb

    (15 November 2012, 11:25AM)  Complain about this comment

    Jack @38, a bit late now, but I think you hit the nail on the head with that one!

    As for QE vs depression etc, Iceland did well out of telling the bankers what they could do with themselves, didn't they?!

    The way I see it (somebody correct me if I'm missing something please) is there was a choice between two:
    Longer term gain for the elite, with longer term (years of) pain for the 'ordinary folk' (QE)
    OR
    Short term pain for ordinary folk and the elite, with longer term pain for the elite (default, whether national or private debts)

    Of course, there are none more greedy than those who already have too much.

  • 45. jack or maybe jackanory

    (15 November 2012, 08:54PM)  Complain about this comment

    Your right Orb, someone will end up paying the price.

    I'd like to beleive that the rich will come good but that would be very naive of me. So it will be people like you and me will, unless our goverment grows a spine!

    QE isnt going to work and is causing inflation and stopping the buying power of the savers.
    House prices are too high and are bring down growth not only in revenue in sales tax but also a massive amount of lost jobs in the constrution industry ect ect.

    The banks caused this whole criminal act and in my opinion should pay!
    This problem needs to be brought down gently and the only way is to make the banks (afterall some do belong to us) work for us for a change.
    A None profit banking making system should be brought in to help the private and public.

    If refused the dirrector should sevre time!

    Some sort of marshall law should be dictated!!

    I dont like it either

  • 46. jack

    (17 November 2012, 10:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    What's the matter?

    Dont you rich people like someone playing the devil's advocate

  • 47. Boris MacDonut

    (18 November 2012, 04:37PM)  Complain about this comment

    #46 jack . Rich people, from my experience, do not like to be told anything other than their bank balance. Most of them severed any moral tie to the rest of the UK years ago and would see the likes of yourself as a "loser" who is entirely responsible for his own failings. Unfortunate, but true.

  • 48. jack

    (18 November 2012, 06:54PM)  Complain about this comment

    Boris,
    I would of bet my giro cheque on you being the one to respond, but as I dont recieved one I will have to wait for a much worse day.

    In my eyes a person who lives upto their word is far richer than a person with money and no morals, they are a dime a dozen!

    I was just looking for anyones opinion on 45, as I thought "A lesson on how the rich try to repress the working class" was due to be published next week

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