The house price rally has run out of steam - what's next?

By MoneyWeek Editor John Stepek Jul 29, 2010

John Stepek

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The house price rally has most definitely run out of steam.

Nationwide building society reported this morning that prices fell by 0.5% during July. Annual price inflation fell from 8.7% in June to 6.6%. Apparently the average house in Britain will now set you back a mere £169,347.

The Land Registry disagrees slightly. It reckons prices were sitting at around £166,072 in June. But let's not quibble over a few grand.

This is roughly where prices were sitting in mid-2006.

And there's been a barrage of data pointing to further falls in the coming months.

So are we heading for a second crash?

The house price rally is over

House prices seem to have hit a turning point. Take a look at the chart below, which my colleague David Stevenson has just put together on Bloomberg. It shows Nationwide's monthly change in house prices (white line) and the 12-month moving average (red line).

This helps to cut out some of the monthly noise - it's a pretty volatile index in the short term. You can see that the average has rolled over quite clearly for the first time since the 2007/08 crash.



Now it's not as though the moving average has never rolled over in the past without leading to a calamitous downturn. But it does show that the big rally off the 2009 bottom has lost all momentum.

And Nationwide's report is hardly the first piece of data this week to point to further falls.

On Monday, a survey from property analyst Hometrack showed that prices fell by 0.1% in July. That was the first fall in 15 months. Meanwhile, online estate agent Rightmove reported a fall in the number of people who expect prices to be higher in 12 months' time - although the figure still stands at 40%, down from 50%, so it's hardly a massive swing to the 'bear' camp.

What's the problem? The number of buyers is still being restricted by tight lending conditions. As Martin Gahbauer, Nationwide's chief economist points out, "despite the introduction of a second stamp duty holiday for the vast majority of first-time buyers and record low rates, the number of properties changing hands across the UK is still running at only half the levels seen prior to the financial crisis and recession."

The latest data from the Bank of England confirms his point. Mortgage approvals fell from 49,500 to 47,600 in June. That's the lowest level seen in four months, and well below the six-month average of just over 50,000. Bear in mind that before the crash, home loan approvals were consistently running at well over 100,000 a month.

Why is the number of properties for sale on the rise?

On the other side of the equation, the supply of properties for sale is rising again. The scrapping of Home Information Packs has clearly had some effect. It may have been the catalyst that some people needed to start their own property search. They're not forced sellers of course. But once you make a concrete decision to at least consider moving, the process can take on its own momentum.

But more important is the recent recovery in prices itself. Having seen prices return to near-peak levels, many people have no doubt decided that now might be a good time to sell. Some point to the unravelling of the "unwilling landlord" phenomenon. This is where a homeowner moves house, but keeps their old property to rent out, because they can't sell easily.

I don't know about you, but I find it hard to believe that this has had a big impact on the market. Given that bank lending is tight, where do these "unwilling landlords" get the money to move house? Raising a decent-sized deposit without selling your original property isn't easy for most people, I'd imagine. And it's not something you can find specific figures for in the official surveys. If you have a theory on this front, do feel free to share it and any anecdotal evidence in the comments section on the website.

What will it take to get house prices back to fair value?

Whatever the precise reasons, supply is up and demand is down. So what happens now? Well, it's clear that UK property is still over-priced, as we've discussed several times in the past. What isn't clear, is what it will take to get it back to fair value. Both PricewaterhouseCoopers and the National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) have argued in the past couple of weeks that prices will take several years to return to peak levels in "real" terms. In other words, we won't see a huge slide in nominal prices, just a slow, grinding devaluation.


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But I'm not convinced that we'll be taking the slow, scenic route to fair value. The housing market is being propped up by quite remarkably low Bank of England rates right now. Yet Mervyn King, the bank governor, has admitted that inflation will remain a lot higher than target for some time. That doesn't mean he'll hike rates any time soon. But it's going to be a lot tougher to keep the bank rate at the current 0.5% if British inflation climbs much higher.

You can throw in other significant problems, such as black holes in bank funding, and the potential for sharply higher unemployment as the government cuts back on public spending. But what it really adds up to is this. Houses are an overvalued asset, dependent on a very precarious set of economic circumstances. There's not much of a margin of safety there in case of nasty surprises.

We'll be getting our roundtable experts in to discuss the topic again soon. I suspect it'll be an even livelier debate than normal. Meanwhile, if you are planning to buy a house, the main takeaway is that you have to play it safe. Be very sure that you can afford your monthly payments even if rates were to rise. And it's a good idea to have as big a deposit as you can manage (although you'll probably need one in any case to get a loan in the first place).

Our recommended article for today...

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Comments (66)

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  • 1. spamfree

    (29 July 2010, 11:45AM)  Complain about this comment

    I can't see how house prices can plateau or decline very slowly whilst waiting for wage inflation to 'catch up' in a few years' time - as we saw in the 70s...
    Wages aren't going anywhere; house prices will fall as more forced sellers come to the market as a reflection of the bleak economic situation we're in - unemployment being the main driver.
    Look how quickly the market fell prior to the IR cut to 0.5% - the market needs to re-calibrate naturally and I can't see the present government being quite as hell-bend of re-inflating the bubble while they can still blame Labour for the mess we're in.
    I fully expect 30% falls from present prices by 2012.

  • 2. Steve

    (29 July 2010, 11:50AM)  Complain about this comment

    Interesting article. However the point about 'unravelling of the "unwilling landlord" phenomenon'. Is very much my situation. I have only ever bought a property to live in and for various circumstances I have had to upgrade to bigger properties. I currently own 4 properties with 3 rented out. I have been trying to sell on and off for 2 years and I have only received ridiculous offers, or decent offers that have been withdrawn due to the purchaser not being able to secure a loan.

    2 months ago I bought a bigger property and had to use all my savings for the deposit as I could not release equity through selling any of my other properties. I agree that most could not afford this but if there ever was an unwilling Landlord, then I am certainly it. If the market looked favourable then I would put all 3 on the market.

    On the flip side I have seen rent increase and more people looking for tenancy, as they can't purchase their own home.

  • 3. AA

    (29 July 2010, 11:56AM)  Complain about this comment

    Ive seen charts showing house price affordability at4 times average earnings being the mean which are presently standing at 6 times.There doesnt seem to be any mention of interest rates within the equation which I would have thought has great relevence.Can anyone explain.

  • 4. Steve

    (29 July 2010, 11:57AM)  Complain about this comment

    Spamfree - regarding your comments about wages not going anywhere. That may be the case in a general sense but its certainly not the case in Financial Services. In the past 6 months I have seen salaries on average rise from 30% and on some occassions 100%. e.g. on average salaries at 50k being raised to 65k-85k. I am right in the middle of these negotiations and this is the norm. As you know FS drives a lot of the market around the city especially. I imagine people in this space can purchase property. A friend yesterday even stated that he had received a loan for 450k and he is now hunting for homes.

  • 5. Martin

    (29 July 2010, 12:04PM)  Complain about this comment

    I would guess that there are many unwilling, or as I prefer to call them, accidental landlords, around although most would relate to inheritence, marriage etc. I know of a few cases where marriage led to one house being marketed, and then unwillingly rented out (as buyers failed to emerge). Most are hanging on awaiting a market improvement, although given that those I know are having to top up rental payments to meet the mortgage, patience will wear thin once prices fall.

  • 6. Andrew

    (29 July 2010, 12:20PM)  Complain about this comment

    How are "July" figures being released already? Aren't there a few days left for sales which should be included in this month's data?

  • 7. Pop

    (29 July 2010, 12:22PM)  Complain about this comment

    Steve, I think you'll find FS is a long way from the norm in terms of wage settlements in the wider UK plc, nil increase or wage cuts is what I have experienced over the past three years. The wage bubble of public sector bloat is well and truly over, and I'm hearing rumours of cuts in the IB side of many organisations anyway.

    I suggest the prospect of the financial services world keeping the sinking ship of house prices afloat is a bit of a pipe dream.

  • 8. Anthony

    (29 July 2010, 12:26PM)  Complain about this comment

    RE "accidental landlords" - my partner and I got together in early 2006 and got decided to live together just as her flat went into negative equity some time in 2007. We had made the decision we wanted to live together, so we didn't buy a new place - we moved into the larger of our places and rented the other one.

    So I'd say there could be a small yet reasonable number of people in this position. Couples who have become settled enough to move in together since the beginning of the housing market decline, which has been 2-3 years now and shows no signs of abating any time soon...

    Maybe you should ask match.com et al if you want to try and get some figures!

  • 9. gs

    (29 July 2010, 12:27PM)  Complain about this comment

    Very much agree...the recent cushion of zero interest rates and stamp duty holidays etc are played out. The longer term rocket fuel of cheap and plentiful new credit but a distant memory. Interest rates do not need to rise for house prices to fall in this economic environment...

    Consider this: How many homeowners in your street could afford to buy the house they live in given today's economic realities? Very few. There are whole neighbourhoods of London lined with streets of "million pound properties", yet how many of their owners (and I use the term loosely since technically the bank owns them) could take their equity and household income and get the necessary mortgage in today's world to make up the difference? Very few...(cont)

  • 10. gs

    (29 July 2010, 12:30PM)  Complain about this comment

    (cont)…Luckily, most homeowners will not lose their jobs and are not forced to sell. But in time this imbalance between purchasing power (earnings/borrowing) and property prices will be eroded.

    Without volume (and there is almost none), price is irrelevant as the only transactions are marginal and based on more extreme circumstances. That is where we are today. Either an increase in volume (owing to new declines in employment) or the passage of time will trigger the mean reversion that reveals the "right" price. (cont)...

  • 11. gs

    (29 July 2010, 12:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    (cont)...Until then the whole market is nothing more than a Madoff esque house of cards. So long as the flow of people wanting their money out (sellers) is not wildly disproportionate to the small but inevitable flow of new investors (think first time buyers, those moving up the housing ladder as their earnings increase, or young families who prioritise school proximity over short term finance etc) then the price is just about able to be maintained.

    Nobody is moving sideways in this market. That is the key.

  • 12. Steve

    (29 July 2010, 12:37PM)  Complain about this comment

    Pop, I hear you on that front as I don't have visibility on other industries. It does feel like a bubble in FS as salaries are escalating at an increase rate weekly. In the first quarter we would have 3 out of 4 offers accepted. Currently its 1 offer out of 4. Counter offers and competition are rife and therefore we are forced to pay premium rates to consultants who have raised their fees by 20-30%. In all honesty I haven't seen money thrown at people like this since 2000. The biggest jump I have seen is a person currently on 32k being offered 65k. And they were just competent, not senior.

  • 13. Ardsman

    (29 July 2010, 12:45PM)  Complain about this comment

    In 2009 1.4 million people were over the age 85, apparently over 50% owned ther own home, could we be looking at a large number , say 100,000 homes per year, going on the market, their children cashing in. Could be as many as new builds and would it gather pace. I'm getting close to it, I think I will sell now!!!

  • 14. Mike

    (29 July 2010, 12:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    I would expect the main drivers of house price fals (or rises) to be and probably in order of risk and importance

    Unempolyment
    Income
    Bank lending
    Bank failures
    Interest rates (monetary policy)
    Housing Benefit
    Migaation

    When we know what will happen to these drivers then we will know what will happen to house prices and when

  • 15. Peter

    (29 July 2010, 12:56PM)  Complain about this comment

    Another unwilling landlord scenario doesn't involve buying a second property. Someone might have to relocate for work outside communting distance from their home and decide to rent closer to work until they can sell at a price they are willing to accept.

  • 16. Colin

    (29 July 2010, 12:59PM)  Complain about this comment

    inflation means higher rates which means lower prices. The only thing that can save you is increased demand because of other factors like location. colin at www.propertyfair.com.au

  • 17. Andy

    (29 July 2010, 01:01PM)  Complain about this comment

    Our landlord let his house to us Nov-08 to move into his "dream house". The house had been on sale for 6 months when he finally put the "to let" board up too and we stepped in. We could have afforded to buy but felt the market was too frothy.

    Our landlord is in his late 40's and has probably had time to pay most of his mortgage off or even come into inheritance (I suspect the latter).

    Q2 '10, at the peak of the recent uptick, he asked if I wanted to buy it -- I told him "I'd love to" and made an offer which I think Steve, comment 2, would call "ridiculous" but I would call "fair".

    One or two landlords have off loaded their "investments" in the recent uptick, but many are waiting for the halcyon days of 10% a year growth on a highly leveraged quasi-investment.

    The insight I have is that a lot of reluctant landlords are at a stage in their lives where they have savings or inheritance to enable them to move on and are waiting for the glory days to return before selling.

  • 18. Ja$

    (29 July 2010, 01:08PM)  Complain about this comment

    The steam supply is very regional. Here in Cambridge the prices hardly moved through the 2008, - despite all the leading gurus predicting double figures drop - before climbing up again in 2009. The reason:strong local economy ("The Cambridge Cluster"), the Uni, Addenbrookes Hospital, Genom Campus, London commuting (the City). Will it dip this time? The steam's still here!

  • 19. sheisla

    (29 July 2010, 01:10PM)  Complain about this comment

    this may be a bit off track but I was wondering about my attempts to downsize. I am having trouble selling my house but have found one, much smaller that I can afford to pay cash for. what would be my rights if i bought it, therefore owning 2 properties. Would i be liable for any taxes when my larger house sold?

  • 20. Peter

    (29 July 2010, 01:16PM)  Complain about this comment

    AA (comment #3), that's a good point about interest rates and the long term link between average earnings and house prices. For most of the 80s interest rates were around 9% and often over 10% with a brief decade low of 7.38%. The 70s were a similar story. (http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mfsd/iadb/repo.asp)

    Now interest rates can only rise from the current 0.5%, but does anyone have an idea of how high they are likely to go in this cycle? Unless they return to the 8% - 10% historical average, is there any reason to think the prices to average earnings ratio should?

  • 21. antony199

    (29 July 2010, 01:29PM)  Complain about this comment

    its easy ,securitise your current prop A
    rent home A out(your house)
    Assuming you have high eqity say 70 % plus put it up as collateral on new home
    Buy new house and use rent from house A to pay mortgage until you sell house A .Very high risk but nobody learns and I know several people doing it,using unconventional lenderI suspect it will end in tears unless you have a large safety margin built in,for voids ,tenancy timing etc

  • 22. Bertha Vanation

    (29 July 2010, 02:29PM)  Complain about this comment

    By 'ridiculous offers' you mean the fair market value, i.e. the price at which someone is prepared to part with their money.

    You're probably caught in the collective delusion of many sellers believing what you are told by unscrupulous and, obviously vested interest EAs aa well as being wedded to the idea that your house was worth that figure once, so why not now?

    Believing what you consider to be a fair price is largely irrelevant. The market will ultimately decide your fair value and I'm guessing it will eventually end up circa those 'ridiculous offers.'

  • 23. Bertha Vanation

    (29 July 2010, 02:30PM)  Complain about this comment

    By 'ridiculous offers' you mean the fair market value, i.e. the price at which someone is prepared to part with their money.
    Steve @ 11.50 AM
    You're probably caught in the collective delusion of many sellers believing what you are told by unscrupulous and, obviously vested interest EAs aa well as being wedded to the idea that your house was worth that figure once, so why not now?

    Believing what you consider to be a fair price is largely irrelevant. The market will ultimately decide your fair value and I'm guessing it will eventually end up circa those 'ridiculous offers.'

  • 24. Bertha Vanation

    (29 July 2010, 02:30PM)  Complain about this comment

    By 'ridiculous offers' you mean the fair market value, i.e. the price at which someone is prepared to part with their money.
    Steve @ 11.50 AM
    You're probably caught in the collective delusion of many sellers believing what you are told by unscrupulous and, obviously vested interest EAs aa well as being wedded to the idea that your house was worth that figure once, so why not now?

    Believing what you consider to be a fair price is largely irrelevant. The market will ultimately decide your fair value and I'm guessing it will eventually end up circa those 'ridiculous offers.'

  • 25. Mart

    (29 July 2010, 02:33PM)  Complain about this comment

    I've noticed the volume of properties listed with a well known auction house virtually double since the Capital Gains Tax squeeze was mentioned by the new coalition and expect that this will be the final catalyst to see the long overdue correction in property prices.

  • 26. Steve

    (29 July 2010, 03:07PM)  Complain about this comment

    Bertha, not so. I have bought and sold a lot of properties due to my work moving me around and know what is reasonable. When I say ridiculous offers I mean ridiculous. We had relatively decent offers which we accepted on 3 occassions but the banks have declined/pulled out from giving the buyers a mortgage. Our next door neigbours had 2 offers accepted and banks also proved to be the roadblock for the buyers. They ended up selling for the amount they wanted to a cash buyer. Banks are still the biggest obstacle to people purchasing homes. If I didn't have 25% deposit for my new home I was unable to get a mortgage from anywhere even though my expendable income was much more than the mortgage itself.

  • 27. Bertha Vanation

    (29 July 2010, 03:13PM)  Complain about this comment

    Steve,

    I accept, but don't you agree that we are at a tipping point where sentiment has changed and the next leg down is a loss of confidence. Once on the slippery slope, all previous bets are off.

  • 28. Bob Roberts

    (29 July 2010, 03:17PM)  Complain about this comment

    I think we now need pyschologists rather than ec onomists to look at what is happening with UK house prices.

    Having had 10 years of house prices rising more than most people's salaries it is going to take an enormous change in sentiment to get people to accept lower prices let alone crash prices.

  • 29. Bertha Vanationb

    (29 July 2010, 03:29PM)  Complain about this comment

    Bob Roberts,

    I think we need psychologists to examine how we've accepted sky high prices for so long!

  • 30. Bob Roberts

    (29 July 2010, 03:46PM)  Complain about this comment

    You don't need a shrink for that Bertha - just plain old human greed... combined with the wonderful British thing of snobbery, class and of keeping up with the Jones.

    I personally think the market has reached stalemate now as people lump on their 100K or 200K non-mortgage debt to their asking price... hoping for a mug to write off all their debts... in effect many sellers are simply pricing themselves out of any viewings let alone people buying.

    I am seeing lots of sstcs come back on the market which I assume is either the buyers getting sane or the banks refusing to lend the money.

  • 31. charlesdb

    (29 July 2010, 03:52PM)  Complain about this comment

    In my area of suburban London, house prices haven't rallied or trod water. I've been watching these prices very carefully over the last 3 years and they have done nothing but go up. 20% over the last year. Admittedly, these are asking prices. Admittedly the houses on offer seem to stick - eventually getting sold for less no doubt. Admittedly a lot of them are rubbish. The best get sold at asking price before they are advertised, as happened to a friend of mine. 4 offers at top whack! I no longer believe in anything I read about house prices. They seem to defy gravity if they are of a quality that I would find desirable. Yes, I'm looking to buy. There is a shortage of quality and when it comes along, it seems to fly off the shelf!

  • 32. inbreda

    (29 July 2010, 03:56PM)  Complain about this comment

    trouble is that all of this "bailing out" has been bailing out those businesses that had flawed business models (i.e. the ones that should have failed) at the expense of those that would otherwise have succeeded because they had a valid long term business case. The "existing failures" only exist while the bailout funding remains. One part of that bailout funding is MEW. There are a lot of firms (particularly small BTL empires) that employ people, and can employ people, solely on the premise that house prices keep rising. The government has performed magic keeping the bubble inflated so long, but they are running out of ideas, and the morons at the BoE still can't see the elephant in the room. This will not be a slow crash, but it will last a long time.

  • 33. RJ

    (29 July 2010, 04:33PM)  Complain about this comment

    All this debt being used to satisfy gaining "middle-class". You will only have to sell your assets eventually to pay for your care so why the greed?

    Banks will eventually own everything.

  • 34. Maura

    (29 July 2010, 05:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    Sheisla, Capital Gains Tax is payable on second homes but there are exceptions to it and it is worthwhile looking them up on the Inland Revenue's website. For instance where a property was a first home, the owner is not liable for CGT for up to three years after vacating which means the owner has three years in which to sell before being liable to tax. There are other exceptions which are worth finding out about

  • 35. H

    (29 July 2010, 06:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    Coming from the point of view of the elite's/top investors intention there are two scenarios that I can think of;

    1. Houses will stay out of reach of the majority causing a greater gap between haves and have nots, bringing the west more in line with developing countries, while they become a bit richer. In India half the people live on the streets.

    2. House prices will have to fall or there will be no more boom followed by bust. Is this what Gordie meant when he declared the end of boom and bust? ie no more boom due to ridiculous prices.
    The elite earn much money from boom and bust so they may not be so willing to scrap the system that works well for them. Most people call this "movement of the markets". Moreover, I do not see the elite waiting for wages to catch up before the next boom is stoked, so could it mean falls?

  • 36. ELVIS PRESLEY

    (29 July 2010, 06:58PM)  Complain about this comment

    Merv has effectively told us he is now targeting growth not inflation. People also keep talking about when interest rates rise - are they still talking about that in Japan after 20 years of 0% rates? Merv is going to keep rates low and use QE to try to hold up nominal house prices by devaluing every single thing in the UK (which is what currency devaluation does); real value of housed goes down and the Sterling price stays the same. Result: Merv carries out a financial heist on the great British unwashed - bravo!

  • 37. mark to market

    (29 July 2010, 07:40PM)  Complain about this comment

    @ Steve 25 you have just answered the ridiculous offers bit as a house is only worth what the bank will lend for it other wise you have to wait for a cash rich mug

  • 38. Tiny Tim

    (29 July 2010, 08:14PM)  Complain about this comment

    @ mark to market no. 37 entirely agree

    If you don't need to borrow funds you don't get a bank valuation, which injects some sort of realism into the market, and over pay on the property. Those ridiculous offers are what the market is prepared to pay and sorry @ Steve no.2 - wake up and smell the coffee.
    I am now buying a place - 40% deposit, 3 times income mortgage and was asked to check if I could still afford it at 6% interest rates. Loads of people just can't get mortgages these days which will hit the market soon.

  • 39. Chris

    (29 July 2010, 08:16PM)  Complain about this comment

    There was an interesting note above about banks now being 'the biggest obstacle to people purchasing homes...'
    The whole point, the very crux of the recent price increases over the last decade was the absurd availability of easy credit and banks creating these ever increasing high prices by proxy. So, in equal measure now that the credit has dried up "sensible" offers from would-be buyers that are accepted by sellers are consistently now being blocked by banks...(?) Many would say instead that it is the buyers real world ability to pay and to match their 'sensible' offer in the first place is the problem.

  • 40. Chris

    (29 July 2010, 08:17PM)  Complain about this comment

    The reality is that the mortgage market and access to funds has changed entirely. House prices are no longer based on what someone offers to pay for a house during the days of crazy lending, they are increasingly defined by what they can AFFORD to pay for the house after more stringent rules laid down by banks. Expect more "ridiculous" lower offers in the future. We can expect further price falls as sellers finally grasp this.

  • 41. Paul

    (29 July 2010, 08:34PM)  Complain about this comment

    Steve, give us a break! You are not an unwilling landlord at all - especially if you now own 4 properties. You have simply chosen not to sell because you think the properties are worth more than the market has told you. And a property - as any other asset - is ONLY worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. There was nothing "ridiculous" about the others you have turned down.
    I smell a troll.

  • 42. James - Edinburgh

    (29 July 2010, 08:53PM)  Complain about this comment

    Steve @ 25,

    Looks like you are in a classic case of denial. How do you know what a reasonable offer for your property is in these uncertain times? Reasonable I'm afraid is whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

    We have just sold our two bedroom flat that we paid 150k for in 2005. Our estate agent valued it at £180k and was convinced it would sell at this price. After 6 months how many viewings had there been?

    Just one (who put in what we thought was a cheeky offer of £160k). We didn't accept.

    Three weeks ago we reduced the asking price to 160K, and guess what - it sold within a week for £155k.

    That's still 5k more than we paid for it, or about the same when you take off the agents fees. The lesson - don't be greedy folks!

  • 43. Fingerbob69

    (29 July 2010, 11:36PM)  Complain about this comment

    The cork out of the bottle moment was abolision of HIPS. People are now able to dip their property in the market without any upfront financial outlay. There has been a tripling of property coming on the market (I'm an ES in Ipswich).

    Other drivers are are Landlords selling up in a combination of fears regarding CGT rates (now and future) and inhertance tax. (Several of our larger landlords are of advanced years and see no other option other than to sell up rather than bequeath their estate as is to their families)...

  • 44. carol42

    (29 July 2010, 11:38PM)  Complain about this comment

    I am very much an accidental landlady. After my husband died very suddenly I wanted to move nearer my son. It was just before the credit crunch kicked in, I 'sold' my house easily enough , found one I liked and bought it at the height of the market. Unfortunately three sales fell through as people at the bottom of the chain couldn't get loans once things went wrong. After six months I very reluctantly let the house and hope to try and sell again once the lease is up. I have no mortgage on the property and will take any reasonable offer, I don't expect the original selling price I just want out! as the house is quite close to Cambridge maybe there is hope.

  • 45. Fingerbob69

    (29 July 2010, 11:41PM)  Complain about this comment

    But if you're looking for real (proper) falls in house values then it's a question of to what level will unemployment rise and how fast ...a losing of the old 'feel good factor' combined with rising interest rates. Just how long can the BOE keep the base rate at 0.5% in the face of rising inflation?

    Surely each month which passes with no upward movement in interest rates signifies the great politicisation of the decision and the corresponding reduction in the perceived and actual independence of the BOE?

  • 46. UnwillingLL

    (30 July 2010, 06:32AM)  Complain about this comment

    I'm unwilling landlord becasue I've lost my job in the UK and thus moved back to Australia in 2009 and currently renting here.
    I couldn't sell my property back in the UK (I even tried to sell at a loss to what I had paid back in 2006, but even that isn't working), so don't know what to do...
    It is so dperessing to read news about house prices here in Australia (look like UK 2006 to me) or back in the UK, but let's wait and see what will happen.

  • 47. nigel

    (30 July 2010, 08:15AM)  Complain about this comment

    G'day sports. Here in Australia, a third of all properties have no mortgage attached to them. My guess is that most of these are owned by "baby-boomers" who perhaps only paid a few thousand dollars for their family home forty years ago. As these people retire and the kids have flow the nest, I suppose they might want to downsize and extract equity...Oops! Where will it all come from; that's the question I would like answered. As for "unwilling Landlords", could it be that some of them are Boomers, who with no current mortgage could just re-mortgage their current home in order to buy another one, and then rent it out. The bank would surely regard Boomers with no debt and probably savings as a great credit risk. Bonza, Nige

  • 48. Bertha Vanation

    (30 July 2010, 10:23AM)  Complain about this comment

    47. nigel

    You're right, it is a big pyramid ponzi scheme. For everyone with equity in their homes, there's someone else who has to borrow to finance it. Eventually, & it always happens, the number of borrowers dries up & the whole house of cards collapses.

  • 49. JAW

    (30 July 2010, 10:27AM)  Complain about this comment

    What will it take to get house prices back to fair value?

    Answer: Legislation to remove speculators from the property system. That is not going to happen under a free market Conservative coalition.

    In France property purchase costs and taxes of 12% on ordinary house purchases and up to 20% for a property with land, mean that with property values increasing by only 3% per year you have to keep the house for 4 to 5 years just to get your money back, so short term speculation is uneconomic.

    With speculators out of the property business the result is that French house prices are 30% lower than in the UK. That, Mr Stepek, perhaps answers your question?

    UK speculators are not buying at present, they are trying to sell. That is why property prices are falling.

  • 50. Steve

    (30 July 2010, 10:53AM)  Complain about this comment

    At, Paul 41, I wont respond to the troll comment.

    But you pretty much confirmed that I am a unwilling landlord because I have properties that I 'would' prefer to sell but end up having to rent out instead. Just to clarify my 'ridiculous' comment. At the height of the market my 2 bed would go for 460k. I am happy to offload at 390-400k and I purchased a while ago now at 365k. the neighbours sold theirs at 405k just over 2 weeks ago and its a smaller property. (Buyer had 40% deposit). I have had people making cheeky offers at 330k. (This is ridiculous in my book). The fact I am renting out at £1750 per month reflects a price in circa £420k roughly. So 390k is perfectly reasonable.

  • 51. Michael

    (30 July 2010, 01:23PM)  Complain about this comment

    Moneyweek commentators have been arguing for months / years even that interest rates are going up sometime and that we'll all be ruined when they do. There are a couple of problems with this argument. First is that there don't seem to be any circumstances soon when the BoE is likely to raise rates. The recovery according to moneyweek commentators is illusory so how can they claim at the same time that rates are going to rise. And why would the BoE raise rates when they are low in the Eurozone and in the US? BoE rates follow rates in the US in particular and more or less mirror ECB rates.

    What happens when house prices in the UK fall? Owners don't sell. This is the historical trend - as always with Moneyweek hysteria triumphs over history where house prices are conecerned.

  • 52. Bertha Vanation

    (30 July 2010, 02:04PM)  Complain about this comment

    Steve. 50

    You seem to be getting a bit of a kicking on this forum so I'll try and be gentle but you REALLY do need a reality check.

    Based on your own data, to sell you house at your lower figure (£390k) you will need, based on a 3x salary equation a buyer with an income of £130,000 and with a 25% deposit of £97,000!!!

    You may get lucky, but for a 2 bed property I would not be holding my breath for that sucker (sorry, buyer) any time soon.

  • 53. Stephan

    (31 July 2010, 12:47PM)  Complain about this comment

    @45 & 51 - Couldn't agree more. Look how much controversy the topic of inflation and rate rises generate on this blog. Then check the BoE minutes. Don't you think a group of highly educated bankers and economists might have some opinion (or divergence of opinion) on such a tricky topic? They don't - inflation is clearly the elephant in the room, and this is indicative of the extent to which the Bank has become a political tool. 'Independence' was always a bit of a strong term - Merv does have the politicians to think of, and I can only imagine the extreme political pressure he must be under at the moment to keep rates low. We cannot keep assuming that 'rates have to rise' just because we see it as the logical thing to do.

    @52 - it does sound like Steve lives in Central London, where prices will behave differently, to a degree. Depending on location, £460k for a 2-bed might be perfectly reasonable (i.e. someone WILL pay at that price eventually)

  • 54. Tom O'Neill

    (31 July 2010, 04:26PM)  Complain about this comment

    @Stephan 53 - yes, someone will pay that price eventually, but it may take longer to locate a willing and solvent buyer. There are indeed many in London earning £150K, but in order to have a deposit of £100-115K, they'll need either a private fortune behind them, or already have considerable equity. or a massive bonus.
    There are a few of those, but they wouldn't necessarily want to move into a 460K two-bed flat, however central the location. At their salary level they might be renting a five-bedroomed house in Holland Park.
    A rent of £1750pm, OTOH, is just about manageable on a 50-60K salary, rather than one of 150K. Obviously there are more of the former than of the latter. And two can share a rent, who might not be financially eligible for a joint mortgage.

  • 55. Tom O'Neill

    (31 July 2010, 04:30PM)  Complain about this comment

    Btw, a rent of £1750 pm to 460K price is an assumed rent to property value GRM of 22: such high GRMs are not uncommon in large cities, but I wonder if they will be maintained. Also rents themselves will soften as the housing benefit floor is removed - HB has artificially inflated rental 'demand' in the private sector.

  • 56. What we all need to understand

    (31 July 2010, 06:42PM)  Complain about this comment

    We have had house price inflation of about 300% over 10 years. Salaries have not kept pace, as a result, an illusion of wealth was created. A lot of global capital has been wasted using limited natural resources building the wrong kinds of dwellings the UK especially.

    The price tag for your property is irrelevant if you need to sell then sell. If not don’t, but do not put all eggs in one basket i.e. property, if prices fall you may not get your money out.

    The government can “extend and pretend” for a few more years but the result will be deflation or hyper-inflation unless it addresses the causes.

    Any house over the value of 3.5x income becomes unaffordable overtime as most people need 14 years of full salary to pay off a home. As we add more pressure on available incomes e.g. education costs, fewer jobs, less job security, reduced salaries, more tax, higher pension costs and interest rates for debts. Housing costs as a percentage of income FALL including rents.

  • 57. soysauce

    (31 July 2010, 07:38PM)  Complain about this comment

    As a young estate agent in London during the last crash, the missing element from these posts are the psychological factors. FTB's have been bombarded with propaganda - if you don't buy this month next month you won't be able to afford it, driving many like lemmings into buying just to be on the ladder as they did 20 years ago. As agents we found the buying psychology changed to - that property has been on for 3 months and it's down 10k, if we wait a bit longer it may come down a bit more which is precisely what happened. People only started buying again when things looked unbelievably cheap which related to about a 40-45% fall in value. I spent 4 years working for the recoveries depts of the banks, the reason they want such high deposits is because last time they lost approx 30% in value selling repossessions.
    If someone borrowed 6-7 times income and the banks now only lend 3-4 times income the shortfall has to be found somewhere, most probably through a collapse in prices!

  • 58. Daniel A.

    (31 July 2010, 11:39PM)  Complain about this comment

    There are simply two ways out of this crisis - which has been a long time coming - double incomes or a house price crash. Since the former not going to happen, to paraphrase Sherlock Holmes "When you have removed the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth". Prices thus must readjust back to some level of affordability, e.g. 2-3 times incomes.

    But, given that most of the growth of the last 15 years has come, in the main, from asset inflation and other entirely bogus credit mechanisms, we are in for some hell of a crash.

    The consequences do not bear thinking about...

  • 59. Supermarine Blues

    (01 August 2010, 12:58PM)  Complain about this comment

    JAW,

    France has approximately the same population as the UK in twice the land mass; there are still many dying towns in the rural centre.

    It seems such cheese-eating communist robbery has only a marginal impact on prices.

    They also have very different IHT laws, which prevents people blowing their inheritance on a hideously gaudy Barratt-box and then bleating about being a reluctant landlord when they let out their old pokey Barratt-box!

    There's been so much opportunity in the UK in the credit cycle; people dunno they're born!

  • 60. Bertha Vanation

    (01 August 2010, 02:21PM)  Complain about this comment

    For fear of being labelled a bore, I'll make this as brief as possible given that I've been saying the same thing on various sites now for the past 3 years.

    When you cut through all the hype, interest rates, inflation, tighter lending criteria, unemployment, higher taxes and abolition of HIPs, we're left with one over riding fundamental that governs them all: affordability. This is the driver for the demand side of the supply/demand equation.

    Forget about confidence and EA hype, if people cannot afford a given price, they will not buy, it doesn't matter a hoot how desirable the property is.

    If you're fortunate enough to live in a (still) prosperous area with well paid, secure employment and plenty of willing buyers, good for you. For the most part, I don't see this being the case.

    Looking at all the economic fundamentals that underpin the basics of affordability, it is easy to see where house prices are going for the next few years.

  • 61. Simple_dave

    (01 August 2010, 05:37PM)  Complain about this comment

    I sold up before I move to London (thankfully just before the peak). If I had a mortgage for the property I now rent mortgage payments would have been near twice the rent. I have a simple view that it must be cheaper to buy than rent otherwise there would be no property to rent! For anybody renting relax and feel comfortable that your landlord is subsidising you, you have no risk and are not trapped! Long live landlords OR welcome in the correction! If only that was the case, from where I sit I can only see the market clamping up in a stalemate as buyers refuse to bail out the speculators. I don’t see this changing while interest rates are held down.

  • 62. jbg

    (02 August 2010, 08:32AM)  Complain about this comment

    Greed drives prices up, and then fear drives them down. Sentiment is the most important fundamental of them all.

  • 63. Bobbio

    (02 August 2010, 09:35AM)  Complain about this comment

    When I speak to my friends in Ireland and in USA they tell me of the uncertainties of holding onto a job and cuts in public spending, higher taxes etc (very like the UK know). They are not happy about the cuts, taxes etc, but on the other hand they are delighted that they can buy a nice three bed semi in the same neighbourhood as there parents, at a price which doesn’t make your knees shake.

    Some of my other friends believed the hype of prices only going up and bought flats on the out skirts of Dublin for 6 or 7 times there income. Many of them are know faced with a loss of 50% i.e. 100 to 200k.

    Looking at the houses on my street in south west London (near the M25), a 3 bed semi costs 400 to 700k, 8 to 14 times the salary of some one with a good job.

    Faced with the prospect of 150 to 350k of negative equity I will keep the faith a bit longer. UK house prices seem like Dublin or US in 2006, when the correction final comes I want to be on the right side of the equation.

  • 64. Pat

    (02 August 2010, 10:30AM)  Complain about this comment

    These real estate happenings are benefiting few individuals and companies while really pushing the finances of many on the other hand. Thanks a lot for the facts here. By the way, if you think it's time to have your own place in Nottingham, why not try this great option of rent to own homes. It's the best option you have these days. Good luck in everything!

  • 65. Mike TV

    (02 August 2010, 10:43AM)  Complain about this comment

    I've manged to save a £65k deposit over the last five years. I could easily get a mortgage yet I don't intend to buy until prices are at a more realistic level. Happy to sit here, continue renting without any commitment and see what happens.

    Worst case secenario is that prices stay fairly static over the next few years and then I'm still in the same situation (but with an even larger deposit).

    Best case scenario is that prices take a big tumble. That way in a few years time my deposit will have increased even more and house prices will have fallen. That's a double benefit and may mean I'm able to buy with at least a 50% deposit, possibly more.

  • 66. Rob

    (02 August 2010, 12:33PM)  Complain about this comment

    Its understandable why people who have money invested in property or who have bought near the top of the market are adamant this price crash cannot possibly happen because of so called supply and demand. They seem to stick their fingers in their ears whenever valid points about fundementals are discussed.
    An absurd article by some aparent 'leading economists'on sky news reports today that houses will continue to go through the roof for the next four years. Some of the comments attached just show how easily people hang on to the media hype. Nothing I'm afraid, is going to save those unfortunate people from what is coming.

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