Why the world’s biggest property bear may be buying a house

By Dominic Frisby Feb 08, 2012

Dominic Frisby

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I’m in a bit of a pickle.

My landlord’s just told me he wants his house back in June, which means I’ve got to move out.

I was hoping to be able to stay there for another year or two then, with gold prices higher and house prices lower, buy the mother of all gaffs. Buckingham Palace, maybe. Or perhaps Apsley House, which has the best address in the whole world: Number 1, London. Surely it’s worth the price tag alone just to be able to say that every time the bloke from the call centre asks where you live.

But, sigh, that’s not going to happen. I’m still in the confines of overpriced tat in South London.

It comes to us all, I suppose, at some stage and it’s come to me now.

I’m sick of renting. So what should I do?

The cheapest asset on the planet: money

As regular readers will have probably gathered, I hate the housing market.

I hate the fact that houses in London are so expensive (or is it just that I can’t afford a really nice one?)

I hate what overpriced house prices have done to people. I hate the way that people have got rich by sitting in a house and watching the price go up, rather than doing anything productive.

I hate the way house prices have alienated a generation. I hate the way people put off starting families simply because house prices are too dear. It’s all a consequence of our stupid credit-based fiat system of money.

So it’s become a point of principle not to buy a house. And I almost feel like, were I to do so, it would be some kind of betrayal.

But I’ve had something like seven different addresses in the last ten years. I’m sick of moving. What’s more, rent in London is not cheap. And I can’t move further out. For various reasons, I have to be in London.

I’ve spoken to the bloke in the bank. I’ve spoken to a couple of mortgage brokers. It seems that, yes, banks are being more careful with what they lend and who they lend it to. But, if you’ve got a bit of equity and some earnings, I’m surprised how much you can still borrow. And I’m amazed at how little it costs to do so.


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I can get a five-year fixed rate for something like 3.5% and a variable rate in the 2.6% area. In other words, it would cost as little as £2,600 a year to borrow £100,000; £13,000 to borrow half a million; or £26,000 to borrow a million.

Investors looking around for value often cite Japanese stocks or Berlin real estate, but if you want something that’s really cheap – it’s money. Money is probably as cheap as it’s ever been.

Keep hanging on to gold

The general consensus is that interest rates aren’t going anywhere for at least two years. And, unless we have a run on the pound (possible, but unlikely for now – we have southern Europe to get through first) or the economy suddenly turns round (yeah, right), I would agree.

The consequences of higher rates do not bear thinking about and the unspoken policy of governments and central banks is one of currency and, hopefully, by extension, debt devaluation.

This all makes me think: ‘borrow’. And, what’s more, don’t even fix the rate. Borrow at a variable rate for now and then, in a year or two, or whenever I start to get the faintest whiff of looming higher rates, fix for five years – or longer if possible. 

The underlying asset could fall in value by 20 or 30%, but any falls are offset by the cheap interest rates. (It could also go up if foreigners keep buying central London real estate – I’m hearing, for example, that a lot of Greek buyers are registering with agents in Kensal Rise and Queen’s Park). What’s more, my interest repayments would be less than half what I pay in rent.

It all amounts to a pretty compelling argument to borrow and buy – exactly what various Western governments want me to do.

I would have to sell quite a bit of my gold to come up with a deposit. But I am confident that gold will go up annually by considerably more than the 2.5% to 3.5% rates of interest currently being offered by the banks. So I would want to sell as little as possible, although eventually, I would use my gold to pay down as much of the loan as possible. And, if I’ve any left over, buy that palace in Westminster.

By the way, if I could borrow money at 2.6% and buy gold with it, I would.


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So, unless some reader offers me a fab pad to rent at a discounted price, it looks the world’s biggest housing bear – lured by cheap money, and forced by circumstance – may be taking some small steps towards buying a house this spring.

Should you go out and do the same? Borrow and buy?

It depends on your circumstances, of course. Maybe if the rental market in the UK made it viable to be a long-term tenant, I wouldn’t feel pushed into this decision. Nor do I have the faintest interest in buy-to-let, not least because of the jump from buying something that you have to rent anyway to full-blown property investor. What's more London and the rest of the country are different beasts.

I'm not bullish on UK housing, but I'm sick of being bearish. And, with fiat money this cheap, there are some compelling reasons to at least consider getting hold of some (if you can) and swapping it for a house.

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Comments (150)

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  • 1. twitter.com/dharmaone

    (08 February 2012, 10:51AM)  Complain about this comment

    My thoughts on this - the BoE base rate is unlikely to creep up in the next year or two unless something drastic happens, but interbank lending rates have been moving upwards in the past few months, and one would guess that will be reflected in fixed mortgage rates sooner or later.

    If the Euro situation worsens, I would imagine that will also push up interbank lending rates due to worsening trust between banks.

    So in a couple of years the fixed rates on offer might be in a different place, even if the base rate stays low.

  • 2. Elvis Presley

    (08 February 2012, 11:03AM)  Complain about this comment

    Good article. What is it with us? You haven't been able to buy a new car in this country for decades without losing a fortune in the first minute. You're forced into the second hand market from the off. Now the housing market is ruined too. The two biggest purchases anyone one makes made much more difficult and risky than they should be. Plain stupid.

  • 3. LERENARD

    (08 February 2012, 11:10AM)  Complain about this comment

    I share Dominic's frustration with the UK housing market and housing policy. Looking back, property speculation has never done any economy any good. The US and Japan are prime examples. We have been driven into buying because renting on short lets is such a poor option. The whole system was designed for the benefit of property speculators and does not constitute proper housing policy. We need continental style long leases where tenants literally feel at home and do not have to worry about moving every six months. Bankers' bonuses have also driven up prices in London. As a result, a whole generation will necver be able to accede to home ownership.

  • 4. jm

    (08 February 2012, 11:16AM)  Complain about this comment

    " I hate the way that people have got rich by sitting in a house and watching the price go up, rather than doing anything productive. "
    Is that not the same as investing in gold.

  • 5. Kingbingo

    (08 February 2012, 11:18AM)  Complain about this comment

    I agree, it is a woeful situation. Unless you are on benefits you have to choose between not having a family or being able to live in an area your kids won’t get stabbed. Since unless your extremely fortunate with your income, you have to have a couple who keep earning an above average wage to afford a below average property in a reasonable area, so if you opt for the later you cannot then afford the former. Both partners must work to bear the burden of debt.

  • 6. Kingbingo

    (08 February 2012, 11:18AM)  Complain about this comment

    The current housing market is clearly distorted, with young people forced in obscene levels of debt to fund the baby boomers Ponzi scheme. Will this Ponzi scheme collapse? Of course it will, every intelligent observer can see that it must. But the question is can the government pervert the laws of economics for say another 15 years? Well, yes, it probably can. Furthermore Banks for example are failing to repossess specifically to avoid arriving at a market clearing price.

  • 7. Simon Shinerock

    (08 February 2012, 11:20AM)  Complain about this comment

    Ha Ha, your article really made me laugh. You certainly hate a lot of things, I especially Liked this bit 'I hate the way people have got rich by sitting in a house and watching the price go up rather than doing anything productive'! What? like buying gold, sitting on it and watching the price go up? I hope all the investors who you have advised to forgo sensible gearing and sit on the property fence while they watch others benefit from a once in a generation opportunity to make money from give away interest rates forgive you. Give my regards to Merryn.

  • 8. Kingbingo

    (08 February 2012, 11:20AM)  Complain about this comment

    So like you I hate the fact today’s young are being forced into obscene debt if they want children, all so the baby boomers can protect their bubblenomics asset valuations. If I could revolt against this Keynesian statism I would.

    On the practical issues you describe I may well look to buy in the Summer, and I will feel sick having to do so. But I want to get past March 20th and the Greek default first. And that’s just the start, there are dozens of things that could sink the housing market at any moment. But on the other hand the BoE has a technology called a printing press……..

  • 9. tuesday

    (08 February 2012, 11:21AM)  Complain about this comment

    Good to read an honest piece.

    Is this Moneyweek finally changing its tune on property?
    In the last two years, MW has gone from predicting an all out devastating crash (remember the cover illustration of a man rushing headlong towards a cliff edge?) to making an exception of London, then London and the South - East and now restricting it to 'investment property'.

    Setting aside whether it should be that way or not, the article surely equally applies to buy to let - if you have the capital for the deposit?

  • 10. inmind

    (08 February 2012, 11:21AM)  Complain about this comment

    "It all amounts to a pretty compelling argument to borrow and buy – exactly what various Western governments want me to do." - with one significant difference Dominic; you have at least had the good sense to consider how you might one day repay your enormous loan whilst 'Western Govts' are happy turning a blind eye to this annoying detail! They would have us look, as they do, to the 'silver bullet' which is inflation to us save all. I just can't help the words 'free' and 'lunch' coming to mind!

  • 11. khards

    (08 February 2012, 11:33AM)  Complain about this comment

    Property and Gold prices do not move in the same direction together, so why keep on holding your Gold?

  • 12. Charles Gray

    (08 February 2012, 11:34AM)  Complain about this comment

    It's surprising to learn that this supposedly experienced and knowledgeable investor is still living in rented accommodation in South London and having difficulties raising a deposit to buy a house. Just goes to show that one shouldn't always listed to 'experts'...

  • 13. JREwing

    (08 February 2012, 11:40AM)  Complain about this comment

    You also need to place a value on the deposit you put down. If you buy a house worth 500K and the deposit is 150K, you have to try to think what your deposit would be worth if it was invested somewhere else.

    So, for example, I could have bought a house in 2006 but didn't. In most places prices are not far off where they were in 2006. But I didn't buy back then and invested that money in a variety of different investments which did very well. That potential deposit amount is probably worth four or five times that now - an amount that could buy me a flat in London (in cash without debt).

  • 14. JREwing

    (08 February 2012, 11:44AM)  Complain about this comment

    Too often people concentrate only on the rental expense and the mortgage payments. However, there is a third factor that needs to be considered: the value of your deposit. If inflation hits double digits annually and your house doesn't appreciate, your deposit devalues massively. Personally, I think London prices have stayed pumped up by the City for far too long. The City doesn't have a future now in my view. Finance was simply too large as a percentage of GDP and this will shrink over the next decade. That will destroy the ability of most London residents to pay enormous prices for not very good property.

  • 15. DK

    (08 February 2012, 11:44AM)  Complain about this comment

    If you firmly believe that gold will outperform the cost of borrowing, then why not keep your gold and offer a some of it to the lender as security against the mortgage, thus, reducing the amount of cash deposit you would need to raise by selling your gold. You will continue to own all your gold and any increase in the price will effectively reduce your outstanding mortgage. The lender will have security of the combined value of the property and gold against the loan. I appreciate that not many lenders would consider this but it may be a method by which you could buy a property and keep your exposure to gold?

  • 16. JREwing

    (08 February 2012, 11:45AM)  Complain about this comment

    London prices are totally a function of the success of the City. If the City starts to shrink (which it is doing), then London property prices cannot go up in inflation adjusted terms. Also, another fallacy is that house prices do well in high inflation environments. They don't. Think of house prices in the 1970s (despite wage inflation). And you should read about what happened to property prices in Germany in the 1920s. Enough said.

  • 17. David

    (08 February 2012, 11:45AM)  Complain about this comment

    Hardly the rantings of the biggest property bear. More flip flop man.

    The point is you could have made exactly the same argument for the past 4-5 years. That's how long fiat money has been this cheap.

    So either you've been wrong all these years (and you have encouiraged others to follow in your folly) or you were right and are about to make a big mistake.

    What if when rates start to rise you can't get a fixed rate deal for five years?

  • 18. ontheotherhand

    (08 February 2012, 11:53AM)  Complain about this comment

    Having paid 4% or 5% in stamp duty and fees on the way in and facing estate agent fees to sell of 2%, you need house prices to rise just to get your money back one day. If I bought an illiquid bond compared to a government bond, I expect a premium for that illiquidity. Now imagine a house that takes 6 months to 2 years to sell. Now imagine a bond that you have to pay to maintain each year. Crude rental yield in London is about 5%, less on bigger properties. http://www.londonpropertywatch.co.uk/average_rental_yield.html In short, London property is a poor investment where there is no sure-thing capital gain coming. Your human reason for buying - avoiding disruption - is understandable, but that's why secured tenancy needs reviewing and why you should interview your prospective landlord next time...

  • 19. Kingbingo

    (08 February 2012, 11:56AM)  Complain about this comment

    Charles Gray, what a conceited individual you are!

    You think that being knowledgeable and being a renter are mutually exclusive. As if should you not be in mortgage debt you have nothing worth saying. What ridiculous pomp.

    Had you considered that renting for many of us is a choice because we see the economic fundamentals do not make sense? That we have western economics underpinned with primarily with debt. And if you actually read the article you would see that Dominic is actually alarmed at how much leverage a bank will lend. Not that he cannot get the deposit.

  • 20. Van

    (08 February 2012, 12:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    First Merryn, now Dom. Maybe this is the last bear!

    Just kidding - your analysis is spot on - even the housing bears have to admit that money is so cheap right now that it makes it viable to finance a house loan even if the house itself is overpriced.

    The ZIRP situation will not change until the bond bubble bursts (which of course, it must at some point).

  • 21. Tony Blighe

    (08 February 2012, 12:04PM)  Complain about this comment

    Don't do it Dominic! You have held out this long based on sound logic. Where is the sense in borrowing a huge amount of money to buy an illiquid asset that is almost certain to go down in value?

    I live in a rented house with my wife and four children. We have a pile of money in the bank that's effectively losing value. Believe me, I know about the temptation to buy.

    I agree, renting can be frustrating, but how will you feel when you still owe a vast amount of money, your house has lost 30-50% of it's value and you're paying 15% interest plus capital repayments?

    Find a place you can rent for a longer period, hang onto your gold, and in a couple of years you can go shopping for a house with a big smug smile on your face.

    People seem fixated on interest rates and are encouraged to forget that they are borrowing an enormous sum of money that does have to be paid back.

    I'll say it again: follow your own logic - don't do it.

  • 22. Jake

    (08 February 2012, 12:04PM)  Complain about this comment

    I was lured into buying a property last year even though I really didn't want to.

    The cost of mortgage repayments was 40% less than the cost of renting and after viewing over 20 different properties for rent, I was sick of trying to find a good quality property that ticked all my boxes. The quality of properties for sale was far better than those to rent (in Oxford).

    So I bought, even though I firmly expect (and want) house prices to fall heavily.

  • 23. Tim

    (08 February 2012, 12:14PM)  Complain about this comment

    I've been a bear for years but last April I jumped back in to the market, got a £500k loan at just less than £1k a month and have not looked back at all. (I was paying £2,600 a month rent)

    Life is too short to be putting yourself, your family, in Limbo, thinking you're being really clever (as i hoped I was) and waiting for the crash, which the government has gone all to prevent.

    I gave in, the govt managed to distort the market so much that it kept the house of cards standing. Maybe in 10 years time it will all come crashing down but at least I'm really happy in my own house until it does.

  • 24. modsa

    (08 February 2012, 12:22PM)  Complain about this comment

    Ex Council flats used to be excellent value and probably still are. We helped our son buy his about ten years ago, bedroom lounge and kitchen all a good size. He's very happy there. Good hunting.

  • 25. Karlos

    (08 February 2012, 12:24PM)  Complain about this comment

    Just like all the other buy propaganda. Your calculations are based on interest only, what about proving the vehicle for capital repayment?

  • 26. Ian Hodges

    (08 February 2012, 12:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    Your article explains exactly why house prices are ludicrously overvalued: low interest rates and a willingness of lenders to offer large multiples of income. This combination means that buying is far cheaper than renting...at the moment! I would not be so relaxed about interest rates staying low - there are so many external shocks that force the hand of central banks earlier than currently anticipated and the killer blow comes from the percentage increase in interest repayment costs if base rate is raised by just 0.5% - I shudder to think what would happen if we saw rates rise by 2%, or 5% - suddenly renting will look like the cheap option!

  • 27. Mike Parker

    (08 February 2012, 12:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    Have you been keeping an eye on the gold/average-UK-house-price ratio? We're actually reaching close to the 1980 low - apparently it's about 140 oz's of gold for average house - the minimum in 1980 was 88 oz's. (Max. in 2007 was over 300, I think.)

    Five years after the housing market top, I think there's actually a compelling case beginning to emerge for swapping your gold for property.

  • 28. JAMES LESLIE

    (08 February 2012, 12:36PM)  Complain about this comment

    AUG 2004 , HOUSES £160K , AFTER A 42 MONTH RUN FROM £75K FROM JAN 2001 . THEN GOLD $250 DOW WHAT 13,000 , THATS 52 OZ FOR $13000. THAT DAY I SID BUY A HOUSE WHEN THE DOW WILL ONLY GET YOU 3 OUNCES , AND I SEE NOTHING TO CHANGE MY MIND , UK HOUSE IN SILVER JAN 80 , £25 SILVER £21K HOUSE THATS 840 OUNCES , OK 2005/6 WE HAD 200K HOUSE AND £4 SILVER SAME HOUSE 50,000 OUNCES OF SILVER TODAY ABOUT 7000 OUNCES , BY 1980 WE STILL GOT A LOT MORE FALLS TO METAL . I WONDER IF VESTED INTERESTS SWAY THE MEDIA S OPINION . GOLD AND THE DOW WILL BE CLOSE TO EACH OTHER BEFORE THEY HAVE THEIR WAR AND IMPLEMENT SPECIAL DRAWING RIGHTS . ECONOMICS IS JUST A GUISE FOR EUGENIKS ON THEY CHOOSE WHOM WIN AND LOSE . GOLD UNDER £1100 TO ME STILL LOOK CHEAP . AS FOR THE POTENTIAL OF COLLAPSE OF PAPER , THE TIMING WOULD BE WHEN TO SWITCH FROM GOLD TO COMPUTERISED MONEY

  • 29. Van

    (08 February 2012, 12:37PM)  Complain about this comment

    I'm sure Dominic has done his own sums given his own situation and finances.
    As he points out, it's cheaper to buy than it is to rent. Buying costs will be offset in time by saving mortgage interest vs rent. So long as you can comfortably afford the repayments and your plan doesn't consist of "waiting for the price to go back up" then you can't criticize anyone for choosing to buy at this time.

  • 30. Daniel Victor

    (08 February 2012, 12:45PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic,I agree that interest rates are being kept artificially low.So I would fix the interest rate on your mortgage at a level where you can afford the payments,rather than gamble on it going lower still.

  • 31. twitter.com/dharmaone

    (08 February 2012, 12:49PM)  Complain about this comment

    I think most of us agree certain fundamentals (average earnings/house prices) in the London property market suggests a slight bubble, and have for a good while. I'm sure the success of the City has had a part to play in that, as well as the availability of cheap money.

    Looking into the near future, declining/stagnant incomes or a rise in the base rate would have a negative effect on house prices - less people being able to afford high new mortgages and more properties coming on to the market due to repossessions.

    However I think one fundamental is missing from this conversation:

    http://www.london.gov.uk/thelondonplan/images/maps-diagrams/gif/fig-1-1.gif

    I can't see how population growth won't keep pushing house prices (or at least rents) upwards in the long term, unless the government intervenes and suddenly builds lots of cheap housing.

  • 32. jj

    (08 February 2012, 12:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    don't do it...i am in the same situation as you, but i am thinking as a trader, i pay with cheap money for a service( renting), while my tangible asset increases... Gold, Land, and a Flat ....yes a Flat but not in this Country...during the housing hype and where the pound was strong pre-2007 i bought outright a Flat abroad...adjustment will happened to this distorted Market and it wont be pretty...we can always blame immigrants or IRAN...watch out.

  • 33. nixy

    (08 February 2012, 12:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    Our 'responsible' government is allowing debt to increase at about £10,000 per SECOND!!!!

    House prices will not fall just so long as the debt keeps increasing.......

    ....so, nothing to worry about......

  • 34. Tony Blighe

    (08 February 2012, 01:00PM)  Complain about this comment

    Tim (comment no 23), you say you got "a £500k loan at just less than £1k a month".

    No, you didn't. The £1k a month is just the interest (which will inevitably go up over the term of the loan).

    How are you going to pay back the £500,000 that you borrowed?

  • 35. Ed Dixon

    (08 February 2012, 01:06PM)  Complain about this comment

    I'm a Relocation Agent and spend my days discussing the pros and cons of renting and the UK rental market with clients from all over the world. Almost without exception, their first reaction is shock at the rental prices, followed by shock at the sales price of properties, followed by shock that they are getting outbid by foreign students who can pay a year up front.

    The rental market is in a terrible state at the moment, and the understandable paranoia of the mortgage banks is not helping. We had some of the highest home-ownership stats in the world, but I think we are seeing a paradigm shift into a more European style of long term renting without the panic of short-term notice periods. My advice? Find a house you think you can live in for 20 years plus and pay down the capital, not just the interest. Interest only is a completely false economy.

  • 36. Tarquin Fitzwilliam

    (08 February 2012, 01:17PM)  Complain about this comment

    I bought a house in a nice part of Notting Hill in 2005 and was pretty optimistic-rising in value daily. Until around 2007 when it all went in reverse. My estate agent informed me it was a blip and the market would pick up soon, but since then I've had it valued a number of times and I'm informed that if I want to sell it, I'd need to drop the price a good 25%. I've already dropped it 20%. I'm not exactly penniless, but this really is quite inconvenient. I want to get out of property quickly, it's too risky and stressful. It looks like FTBs should wait a few years..

  • 37. Confused Bob

    (08 February 2012, 01:28PM)  Complain about this comment

    Tim (23. Tim),

    Can you or someone more enlightened please explain how you can borrow £500k for less than 1k/month. Even on an interest rate of 2.5% 1k is not sufficient to pay down the interest nevermind making any inroads into the capital. From my secondary school mathematics it would take about 30 years to repay 500k with repayments of 2k/month and an interest rate of 2.5%.

    I'd like to point out, I'm not being aggressive or saying that you're wrong, I'm just intrigued as to find out how it's possible.

    Cheers,

    Bob

  • 38. Tom Goodwin (Northampton)

    (08 February 2012, 01:45PM)  Complain about this comment

    I worked in property for many years and it appears to me that although there are subtle differences this time, the cycle of when to buy/not to buy is swinging now into the buy region. Its scary times for all of us but if you wish/need to buy for the medium term, the downside risk at present doesn't look too bad.
    Go for it Dominic and blame me in 5 years if I'm wrong!

  • 39. Mark Twain

    (08 February 2012, 02:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    Buy land, they don't make it anymore.

  • 40. dumbo

    (08 February 2012, 02:09PM)  Complain about this comment

    A house brick & a gold bar have only 1 thing in common;

    Their "values" are both changed by idiots betting on them.

  • 41. Whig

    (08 February 2012, 02:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    Seems like the authorities have decided they will do whatever it takes to prevent a house price crash. The Tories remember the HPC of the early 90s and the electoral price they paid. National economic policy is irrational so there is no benefit to applying conventional reasoning to it. For those who waited it's the worst of all words - overpaying for a property that will gently decline in value for years. People have been predicting the HPC for ten years and it's still not here.

  • 42. Rajah Brookes

    (08 February 2012, 02:17PM)  Complain about this comment

    Currently in Chile after being in South America for just over a year. Moving back to Devon where there is a glut of expensive properties that have been on the market for over a year. Negotiated with the owner of one from here and have a house (still on market for over 800K) to move into when we return at a very reasonable rent and two months notice. Risky but we are confident it won't sell. Interestingly this was arranged privately. There are plenty of others where property companies and estate agents are persuading owners to try to rent at crazy prices. Consequence...they are neither selling NOR finding renters and half the property in the area is sat vacant. Devon does not have bankers and not much of an economy either and the housing is no longer being supported by wealthy Londoners buying second homes...on the contrary they all seem to be selling! Sooner or later reality will kick in. In the mean time I'm going to enjoy living in a house that I could never afford to buy.

  • 43. Van

    (08 February 2012, 02:25PM)  Complain about this comment

    This is not the time to be over-stretching yourself to clamber onto the housing snake. Interest rates are only going to go one way from here, and when they finally do we all know that the property market is going to get battered.

    Far more sensible to take out a modest loan that you can comfortably make over-payments on. That way when the SHTF you will have a larger equity cushion and will still be able to afford any increase in rates as you didn't overstretch yourself in the first place.

  • 44. 4caster

    (08 February 2012, 02:37PM)  Complain about this comment

    When both lenders and borrowers catch onto loans at 2.5% for gold purchase, that will be a good time to start selling gold.

  • 45. FC

    (08 February 2012, 02:47PM)  Complain about this comment

    I bet every property bear on the UK goes through the same should I / shouldn't I routine every time that chip on the shoulder whispers "it's completely unsustainable" into their own ears. And I say this as one of these troubled, angry, house-less bears. If I were buying now I would be looking to cash buy as much of it as I could, even if that meant buying a much more modest property. Over-sized mortgages are ultimately where all those banker bonuses have come from (magicked up wealth transfer from ordinary workers to the people operating the tills) - and the only way I can register my displeasure is to choose not to participate.

  • 46. Caribbean jim

    (08 February 2012, 02:56PM)  Complain about this comment

    My one piece of advice after some 40 years in the real estate market is if you intend to live in it you better buy property you like! Sounds simple but to many buy what they think is a good investment and when the market turns sour they are stuck in something for which they have no passion. A home is not a commodity to trade at a whim either - it is one of the most serious and personal rewarding investments you will make - owning gold gives little pleasure!

    Grow up and be a big boy - buy a house and make a home. Have roots, someplace to get your hands dirty on weekends, someplace of pride - something to call your own and in the long run you will do just fine.

  • 47. Lawrence

    (08 February 2012, 02:58PM)  Complain about this comment

    I agree totally but for one crucial point. As soon as inflation rears it's head in the way we know it must, your nice low rate will be hiked and fixed rate deals will disappear. If you borrow half a million quid, you will be screwed by high interests rates for ever. If on the other hand, you were to borrow enough to purchase something you could repay in 5-10 years, then you can lock in the rate for the full term of the loan and you are laughing. I am buying a 5 bed house in Dover for 200K, which I will have paid off in 5 years, and while the commute to London will be tough, at the end of it I will have a security I can only dream of right now.

  • 48. Barry O'Dwyer

    (08 February 2012, 03:00PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic,

    I hate seeing people who are throwing in the towel. I hate seeing the banks lending far too much at negative rates of interest (in real terms) on one cruddy piece of collateral - crumbling bricks and mortar. And, I hate to think of what's coming our way, namely a huge depression, a massive downturn in incomes - and thereby an inability to service even 'cheap' mortgages.

    Stick to gold (and silver), put up with the curse of renting in London - at least until a flood of foreclosed properties swamps the rental market, don't borrow for the time being ... and keep on reminding us all how we should be protecting our savings by holding precious metals.

    Nil desperandum!

  • 49. trunch

    (08 February 2012, 03:17PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic,
    I suspect you are suffering from the renting blues and worrying about all that stuff you'll have to lumber around again in the Summer, that's why your not thinking straight.
    I'm in your position too, several moves, different Landlords it's a pain and unfair but as Moneyweek has said so many times we know the reasons why money is kept artificially cheap.
    The reality is when property prices go down on your £0.5m house you could be left with £50k to £200k of fresh air to service
    I don't care how cheap the interest is, you'd be mad to risk it now.

  • 50. Andrew

    (08 February 2012, 03:46PM)  Complain about this comment

    I, too, am a huge property bear, I rented until 2009 until the realisation that:

    i) The govt would do anything to keep house prices from falling (hence the drop to 0.5% BoE), so nothing was to be gained by waiting. (The govt plan is that 5%+ inflation will gradually erode people's debt - can you wait 20 yrs??)

    ii) Rents are twice what an interest only mortgage costs (which is comparing like with like as you merely rent your house from the bank that has lent you the money on an Int Only mortgage)

    iii) Landlords and the general standard & care of rental property is poor and you have no control (and the majority of agencies treat you very badly despite paying their clients' mortgages and their fees for them)

    Just buy!

  • 51. lmearns

    (08 February 2012, 04:19PM)  Complain about this comment

    I have been renting and hold gold. I have two children. I looked at buying a house and was shocked. Prices have risen since the peak. The stock of houses was really bad. Bullish for property- family homes are in competition with profs and oversees workers renting rooms (inc reception rooms) and parents have no chance. Bearish. Sellers are holding out and banks are helping with no repo proceedings and ZIRP but neither can last. Also next gen of buyers will have uni debts of around £60k I know many 30s with uni debts. What are their chances of getting jumbo loans? Also consider the housing benefit cap in 2013. I read that 40% of families in central London live on housing benefit many will be forced to move out and those family properties will come on the market.
    I rent to put my kids in a very good secondary. I'll move out of the catchment in two years at least to save on the 'school tax'. All things point to 2014 to buy for me - sorry you lost faith.

  • 52. John Ashcroft

    (08 February 2012, 04:26PM)  Complain about this comment

    HONEST PIECE.
    BUT WHEN THE LAST BEAR TURNS...

    YOUR LONDON CENTRIC, LOOK AT THE HOUSE PRICES IN THE REST OF THE UK... DOWN
    THE ECONOMY WILL EITHER START TO IMPROVE ... AND MORTGAGE RATES WILL GO UP, AND HOUSE PRICES DOWN...OR ECONOMY WILL NOT PICK UP AND HOUSE PRICES DOWN.

    LONDON IS STILL FLUSH WITH CHEAP MONEY AND FINANCIAL SECTOR BONUSES BUT IT WILL END IT ALWAYS DOES

  • 53. ian

    (08 February 2012, 04:27PM)  Complain about this comment

    GREAT - last bear buying. :-)
    2012
    -end of the Olympics boom (well overseas buying helped keep prices from falling), what next?
    -2011 had Greeks running for cover, Chinese buying off-plan flats as 'investments', a sure sign of a peak
    -we have record low interest rates and expectations of same, when the UK leverage is in 3rd place, Greece first then Portugal (see Bloomberg) - so where do the bond bears turn after Greece? Italy - or the UK
    and UK has no more railtrack, water cos, airports, electricity, etc to sell
    and one overseas owner is selling his UK property and he owns 1% of all UK housing, and if no sovereign wealth fund, what happens, he has 30% equity??????
    Prices are on the precipice, the UK is near bankrupt and as a financial centre is marginalised in the biggest refinancing taking place today (Greece) and Germany is building its own banking centre and Eurozome is closing the door on loose UK rules - the sad end of an era. devaluation no longer works....

  • 54. Barney

    (08 February 2012, 04:32PM)  Complain about this comment

    Sorry to hear you so down, Dominic. Remember the Tom Fischer housing v. gold long term data. I sold property in 2003, put all the proceeds into bullion and continue to rent (very comfortably). The value of the bullion has far exceeded any house value increases - and we are not into the gold mania phase yet. Your original advice is good for many years more.

  • 55. steve.wilkies

    (08 February 2012, 04:48PM)  Complain about this comment

    good article Dom,

    keep up the insightful and factful work, ignore the haters

    Would you be able to give more details on the institutions regarding your statement:

    I can get a five-year fixed rate for something like 3.5% and a variable rate in the 2.6% area. In other words, it would cost as little as £2,600 a year to borrow £100,000; £13,000 to borrow half a million; or £26,000 to borrow a million

    Thanks
    Steve

  • 56. Davros Chrissaroyatissos

    (08 February 2012, 05:01PM)  Complain about this comment

    not good time to buy properties in London. Be careful for Olympic 2012 booms London, then you get puled in, then market go very cold and you left with mega debts and asset all fall down.

    better be free and pay small oportunites costs differnce of rent and mortgagess.

    be free and easy fast feet in these times. so rent continue for now and have more gold. savings still too low, need higher interest rate. so dont mises the opportunites.

  • 57. Myki

    (08 February 2012, 05:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    So there we have it. This is a face-saving article that says Money Week have got the housing market wrong all these years.

    Me too.

    I've been expecting the second (and more damaging) cyclical drop in prices. Its not going to happen. With all the money printing and ultra-low interest rates, cash & savings are rapidly devaluing. UK Property is likely to be an ideal hedge against it. I won't be surprised if we see a boom in property prices in the near future as investors sell bonds & pour into the market

  • 58. JREwing

    (08 February 2012, 05:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    The UK has a debt to GDP ratio of about 600 percent (this is a total of all public sector debt + private debt + bank debt + corporate debt). The country isn't just up to its eyeballs in debt, it is the most indebted on a per capita basis of any society in human history. With that level of debt, you get de-leveraging. Increasing the debt level further simply cannot work with so much debt piled up already.

    De-leveraging can happen in one of four ways. McKinsey identify that in their report. In that environment, house prices anywhere (including London) won't go up on an inflation adjusted basis. You could get a Sterling collapse (or massive devaluation), which will make housing ridiculously cheap. The debt to GDP ratio is a unique situation that we haven't had before. This means the old measures of house prices to gold may overstate the value of property.

  • 59. JREwing

    (08 February 2012, 05:25PM)  Complain about this comment

    To those measuring house prices in gold ounces, why do you think housing to gold is near bottom now? It is true that it is close to earlier bottoms on an historical basis. But then the top was a ridiculous top also on an historical basis - the top was well over 700 when earlier tops had barely exceeded 300. The basic rule of markets is that if they have shoot up hard, they crash down even harder. By that logic, the house prices to gold ounces chart may see an historic bottom this time (to follow the historic record top). If there is a serious fiscal crisis in the UK (with no one to bail the UK out - who will do it this time? The US has no money), housing could hit a much lower low point than any we have seen in relation to gold. The CDS spreads are already flashing warning signs on UK sovereign debt. If it happens, housing in real terms becomes a joke.

  • 60. Cooldude

    (08 February 2012, 05:26PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic not a very good time for you to lose your nerve. Your strategy has been right in the years I have followed your excellent columns and there is no obvious reason to change course now. The London market will eventually drop a bit although it is still strong. Jeff Nielson wrote an excellent article about how he expected a normal 3bed house to be worth 500 ozs of silver before this bull market is over. Keep your nerve, invest your deposit in silver and within 3 years you will have the price of your dream home and no dreaded bank borrowings to deal with.

  • 61. E Jones

    (08 February 2012, 05:39PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dear Dominic.
    interesting article with many good points.
    Unfortunately you've overlooked the value of one item required in a home wherever you live. Peace of mind.
    Its difficult to quantify its value.
    If you have the ability to buy your own home- do it.

    EJ

  • 62. Mark Senior

    (08 February 2012, 06:29PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic

    Spring is the sellers season.

    Wait while october/november.

    You can always buy Grainger shares to cover you for any moves in the housing market whilst you wait for a more distressed seller to appear in autumn.

  • 63. Stuart

    (08 February 2012, 06:39PM)  Complain about this comment

    It is a shame that the majority of wealth today has been protected for the previous generation and very little thought applied to considering our future generations. A rise in house prices does not give rise to any uplift in productivity ... Which in a globalised world matters together with savings and investment. It is sadly easier to tax the free movement of labour rather than unearned wealth, our prosperity is now dependant upon the prosperity of our housing market ... Which may be why Gordon was happy to use a trillion in his last six months propping up the market. One day we will be dependant on the younger generation, lets hope they are a forgiving bunch!

  • 64. Cassandra

    (08 February 2012, 06:46PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dom,
    Have you ever heard the saying "If something looks too good to be true...."? There is a reason why money is currently so cheap. If you are buying you must think that QE has solved our problems? Try read an 'O' level economics book.

    Good luck with getting a 5 year fixed rate ahead of the banks knowing rates are going to shoot up. Consider that when rates do shoot up your gold is also going to plunge, as is the value of your new house.

  • 65. Ted

    (08 February 2012, 06:50PM)  Complain about this comment

    where are we in the house price bubble?
    - check out http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/03/12/53476/bubble-theory-and-uk-housing/
    1) Reasons house prices will fall - economic arguments...
    - interest rates too low (should be above inflation, not below - say 6%)
    - mortgage rates should therefore be around 8%
    - more people moving to interest only mortgages; but repossessions rising
    - average age of first time buyer 37 and rising. students leave uni with even more debt
    - imported inflation and output gap results in disposable incomes being squeezed....

    to be continued...

  • 66. Chris

    (08 February 2012, 06:50PM)  Complain about this comment

    It is a source of national shame that we have a government and a BoE that is actually prepared to trash the value of Sterling just to prevent a house price adjustment. This is the consequence of basing an econ0my around perpetually inflating house prices and the City of London because there was precious little else to produce any fake growth. MW had an article a few weeks ago about replacing Mervyn King with a robot. If Mervyn King and the MPC had been replaced with a board of monkeys we would be in better shape as a country.
    Also is he SIR Mervyn King? I can think of another person who should be stripped of his knighthood....

  • 67. simpleton

    (08 February 2012, 06:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    Does your rapacious BTL landlord want to rent the place out during the Olympics at 10x the current rate? When I hear an uber-bear on the verge of capitulation I get worried.....the progression of psychology during a bubble....doesn't the biggest asset price fall occur with capitulation, followed by despair and mean reversion? I can only see downside catalysed by europe:
    1) Europe sorts itself out - in this case market eyes would focus on Blighty whose debt:GDP and deficit is way beyond that of the Eurozone as a whole. UK bonds are viewed as a 'safe haven' currently mainly because of the uncertainty in Europe. If europe fixes itself I see UK bond market turmoil in the stampede to safer or higher yielding instruments - not good for banks (stuffed with bonds) or housing or banks (stuffed with mortgage debt)

    2) Eurozone break-up - in this event severe recession in UK, not good for housing.

    We're still in the eye of the storm - hold your nerve, the denoument is nigh.

  • 68. Ted

    (08 February 2012, 06:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    continued....

    2) Reasons house prices will remain / rise - political arguments
    - Cameron will not get re elected if houses fall in value. Hence all the help to first time buyers, who get the ladder moving (upwards!)
    - Your house acts as collateral to your loan from the bank. Who owns the bank? Exactly.
    - Banks have hidden losses (google Acromas Holdings to see what I mean) and sovereign debt defaults to contend with. They can't handle house price falls too.
    - Overseas (Greek etc) capital is fleeing the country and needs a home

    to be continued...

  • 69. Ted

    (08 February 2012, 06:53PM)  Complain about this comment


    2) Reasons house prices will remain / rise - political arguments
    - Cameron will not get re elected if houses fall in value. Hence all the help to first time buyers, who get the ladder moving (upwards!)
    - Your house acts as collateral to your loan from the bank. Who owns the bank? Exactly.
    - Banks have hidden losses (google Acromas Holdings to see what I mean) and sovereign debt defaults to contend with. They can't handle house price falls too.
    - Overseas (Greek etc) capital is fleeing the country and needs a home

    continued...

  • 70. Ted

    (08 February 2012, 06:53PM)  Complain about this comment

    continued

    What is worrying is that we are 'normalising' an abnormal situation. Interest rates will revert to the long term mean - when, not if. Volcker raised interest rates from 10%-20% in one year ('79) to combat inflation...

    We sit in an economic v political argument. Who will win? Place your bets & spin the wheel. Balance your portfolio, making sure you include property, gold, baked beans and shot guns (just in case)

    Remember that markets will remain irrational longer than you will remain solvent...

  • 71. Forester

    (08 February 2012, 07:01PM)  Complain about this comment

    I felt the same a Dominic after our landlord announced he was selling the house we were renting. I have now bought a house with land. Which means we can keep animals, Goats, chickens, quails, etc. Could we have done that in the place we were renting? I'll let you guess that one. In short it means we can get on with our lives. Renting is just somewhere to live. A house is a home, not an investment (in the end)......

  • 72. Seena

    (08 February 2012, 07:01PM)  Complain about this comment


    Hmm, I need a lot of persuading that getting into heavy debt to buy an asset which will fall in value is a sound plan.

    I'm a bear on this and I think interest rates are going up because they will go up internationally and the Uk has to borrow on that market.

    I believe that rising unemployment and higher interest rates will hit house prices- the thing that surprises house price bears is why prices have not fallen further. The answer is that money is still fairly plentiful and cheap.

    But it ain't going to be cheap for long.

  • 73. Russell Duke

    (08 February 2012, 07:26PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dont blame the money system. The tax system is the elephant in the room. Since Oliver Cromwell messed it up for us and then we exported our tax system around the western capitalist world even communist China!! We need to stop taxing wages and savings and tax land. We need a Land Value Tax ( LVT Tax ). Not heard of this?? Too many vested interests!! Tax Free money in home equity, buy to let, commercial land lords( pension funds and private interests) Duchy of Cornwall, Duke of Westminster , the list goes on!!! Winston Churchill tried and failed to make life fairer for every one. The House Of Lords defeated him. Oh yeah the House Of Lords again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps we need to have another English Civil WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 74. JREwing

    (08 February 2012, 08:14PM)  Complain about this comment

    I hadn't checked London property prices until I saw this article. It seems that prices have stayed relatively flat between July 2007 (the height of the boom and just before the credit crunch started) and December 2011. Only in some very select neighbourhoods have prices gone up at all - St.John's Wood, Islington, Westminster and Kensington/Chelsea. Even in the areas with the highest appreciation, prices have not climbed more than 20 percent in nearly 5 years. This isn't a move to be concerned about when you consider that Sterling has devalued 20 percent or more against most paper currencies - US Dollar, Yen, Swiss Franc and even the battered Euro. So I don't quite understand your frustration in wanting to jump in now. Had prices rocketed across the board 20-30 percent in most boroughs of the city, it would be a different matter.

  • 75. JREwing

    (08 February 2012, 08:16PM)  Complain about this comment

    Yes rents are higher than mortgage payments but there is a price to pay for having a huge debt load which could become much more expensive to service and with a risk of serious economic problems in the economy (none of the real problems have been addressed in the last five years - the debt to GDP load is ridiculously high).

  • 76. David Judd

    (08 February 2012, 08:27PM)  Complain about this comment

    Not more than 2 months ago, moneyweek as saying stay clear of buying property with a barge pole, ie don't purchase, this article is now saying get in and buy - either I didnt read the article, or misunderstood it but pretty confusing conflicting information

  • 77. Simon

    (08 February 2012, 08:38PM)  Complain about this comment

    Sounds tempting, to borrow a million at £26k.... but you need more figures relating to owning - round trip transaction costs (stamp duty, estate agents fees) mortgage arrangement fees, service charges, maintenance, insurance, ground rent, plumbers, carpets, yada yada yada....
    All this at near zero growth prospects for the foreseeable future whilst interest rates can't go any lower and the BoE is printing money to monitise the debt. Factor in Greek debt is about to crystalize the losses in many a bank and the banks will be lending even less than they are now. Prime central London's cash market will hold up better than elsewhere so I guess the question is Dominic where are you going to buy? And surely you're going to see out the Euro crisis first?

  • 78. Mr Hunt

    (08 February 2012, 08:53PM)  Complain about this comment

    It was mentioned above that people should buy silver and then wait as its price rises so that you can perhaps buy an average house with say 500 oz of silver.

    Average UK House Price is around £161,000 according to Halifax. So with a current silver price of £21.50/oz, that means you need about 7,488 oz silver today.

    Of course, silver is expected to rise towards £100 / oz over the next two years, so you would only need around 1,600 oz .

    So invest £32,000 in silver bullion today and that will in time pay for an average UK 3bed house. And with no mortgage!!

    So I agree. Physical silver is a great investment in the inflationary environment ahead.

  • 79. Bobsta the Layman

    (08 February 2012, 08:54PM)  Complain about this comment

    Nice piece, Dominic.

    I found myself going through the same thought process last August and completed on a purchase of our "in it for 20+ years" house in October... having STRd in 2005 and lived in 3 properties since.

    I don't expect property to increase in real terms for 7+ years. But the BoE has made it abundantly clear that negative real interest rates are here to stay for the foreseeable future. So if you DON'T borrow a stack load of cash, you're almost cheating yourself.

    I liquidated nearly every cash investment I had (with the exception of Index Linked Savings Certs), and even 1/3 of my physical gold holding, in order to get to the LTV required to achieve a sub 2% mortgage rate.

    Most importantly, we also found our ideal house. One that we won't need to move from, even with a growing family. So if it's worth £75k less in 2yrs so be it - we got it when it was on the market, and we'll sit tight. We're very happy with the decision right now.

  • 80. Phil

    (08 February 2012, 09:12PM)  Complain about this comment

    Good article. What I think you have belatedly realised though is that London property is like gold - you should buy in the dips. Like gold, London property can spectacularly crash - but this is very rare, and the long-term trend, like gold, is hyperbolic.

    So, if you are going to buy, buy in the best part of London you can afford, or in the best street of the least worst area you can afford. You will not lose money over the medium to long term. But right now, London prices are booming in the best areas, so now might not be the best time to buy.

  • 81. Wool O'er t' Eyes

    (08 February 2012, 09:21PM)  Complain about this comment

    Meanwhile your pay hasn't increased - in fact it's frozen for 2 years - and the coffee you bought at Starbucks on your way to work has increased from £2.00 to £2.40. The pack of walnuts at Morrisons has gone up from £1.75 to £2.00, and The Telegraph from £1.00 to £1.20.

    So who can afford to buy your house? What happened to the Mortgage/Average Pay ratio of 3 to 1?

    But if I sell one of my gold sovereigns I get much more for it today than I did last year. I think I'll keep accumulating these sovereigns, they'll come in handy one day.

    Perhaps we can be paid in gold or silver coins? How about it Governor?



  • 82. Stu Pid

    (09 February 2012, 12:11AM)  Complain about this comment

    Physical Gold & Property have at least one thing is common. People make money out you when buying and selling. Bullion dealers make their cut just as solicitors make money from the seller and banks charge buyers huge set-up fees. I suppose that at least Gold has no stamp duty (at the moment).

    Selling property is completely insane. I've done it before and felt sick at how much parasitic solicitors charge for a simple transfer of property ownership.
    The question you need to ask yourself Dominic, is "Do i want to live in South London for the rest of my life"

    if the answer is "yes", then buy. If the answer is "no, i'd rather retire somewhere quiet and cheap" then stick with your gut instinct and keep renting.

  • 83. Chris

    (09 February 2012, 09:40AM)  Complain about this comment

    We've established that there are regional variations and that a decision on this depends on wholly individual circumstances. However, the trend is that property prices will grind down nominally for years. Even with QE, ZIRP and inflation, the fact is that the younger UK demographic simply do not have the money to support the ladder as we know it. This will become increasingly relevant as these votes start to matter.
    That glut of expensive houses not selling in Devon (42) applies all over the country. It tells me that there is a large property snake lurking out there.


  • 84. Davros Chrissaroyatissos

    (09 February 2012, 09:51AM)  Complain about this comment

    @86. Chris. a very good point, it is about demographic, no money with young peoples, so propertys will go down. very funny about snake:)

  • 85. JREwing

    (09 February 2012, 10:10AM)  Complain about this comment

    Chris, I think you hit the nail on the head. But the bigger issue is going to be de-leveraging. This combined with the high unemployment rate among the youth and the squeeze on incomes due to rising living costs is going to make it impossible to get rising property prices in the next decade. The Debt to GDP ratio would need to be halved for that to happen. British households have not even started de-leveraging as yet. Once that starts in earnest, it will be difficult to sustain high prices even in London. The whole market is built on credit rather than improvement in real incomes. That edifice is being supported by a central bank willing to trash the currency and by the government's willingness to keep spending like a drunker sailor.

  • 86. Mike Parker

    (09 February 2012, 10:34AM)  Complain about this comment

    On the assumptions that the BoE will continue to trash the GBP, that the UK govt will do anything to avoid the negative equity problems of the early 1990's (I assume they do want to be re-elected), it seems obvious to me that UK house price will stay 'high'. In real terms (due to the effects of inflation) and probably as priced in ounces of gold they'll reduce; i.e. buying a house won't represent a 'good' investment. But in the face of currency debasement etc., it still seems a good and relatively safe place to park your money and maintain a degree of value.

    Also, we're possibly seeing a paradigm shift (as already noted earlier, somewhere) with the next gen of Brits getting to used to renting. UK won't be the property-owning democracy it used to be. BTL seems quite a secure investment looking to the future.....especially if the current laws in favour of landlords continue, and German-style legislation protecting tenants never gets onto the statute books.....

  • 87. M. Numinaire

    (09 February 2012, 10:56AM)  Complain about this comment

    @Mike Parker; "In real terms (due to the effects of inflation) and probably as priced in ounces of gold they'll reduce; i.e. buying a house won't represent a 'good' investment. But in the face of currency debasement etc., it still seems a good and relatively safe place to park your money and maintain a degree of value."

    Seems you contradict yourself in the same paragraph. If you are looking for an investment, it's clear you need to be in physical precious metals and not real estate for the very reason you give, i.e
    " in the face of currency debasement etc.".

    Of course if someone is renting they have a so-called "natural short" on property and they want to quench that short by buying a house, for security.

    So yes, it could be argued that for the purpose of a roof over your head, that is quenching the natural short of renting, buying is right. If being short housing is -1 (i.e renting) then when you go out and buy, you go back to zero, so improving your position.

  • 88. JREwing

    (09 February 2012, 11:24AM)  Complain about this comment

    Dom, I think the real question you are posing is not whether now is a good time to buy property but: how does an average Joe leverage himself on cheap money that is being handed over by the central bank for next to nothing if he doesn't buy property? I guess there actually aren't any other ways of levering up. The problem with property, though, is that it was a bubble which hasn't burst. I have very good friends who have a lot of cash sitting around and couldn't figure out what to do with it. So in the end, they caved in and bought a house. I think the best shorts on Sterling currency debasement are in the emerging markets but retail investors cannot access those investments.

  • 89. Max

    (09 February 2012, 11:40AM)  Complain about this comment

    Housing can only really turn out to be a reasonably good investment, if the government goes all the way to hyperinflation. But sadly at the moment it really looks like the political system in this country might be criminal and corrupt enough to go all the way down that road.

    Either way gold would end to be a better investment though. But why not see housing as a consumption good? That is what it mostly is anyway, although a lot of people do not seem to understand that.

  • 90. Wake Up

    (09 February 2012, 11:56AM)  Complain about this comment

    The number of ounces of gold required to buy a house will continue to fall. So why would you now buy a property when your gold will buy you a bigger property later, or for a given house you will need less gold.

    Any recorded increase in house prices will be due to the effects of QE and so yet again a false sucker punch for those sucked in now. You can have generate a lot of excitement when the Halifax or Nationwide announce their latest house price index figures, but it's all illusionary.

  • 91. blibble

    (09 February 2012, 02:55PM)  Complain about this comment

    Here is my view, as a house owner (outright) and someone who has substantial cash earning pants interest and nothing to do with it. I fully intend to buy a nice London house, rent it out, and make an immediate return. Nobody seems to have made the obvious connection that high values and the high mortgage loans in London are underpinned by rental. If you can buy a house for £525K and someone will pay £600 pw to live in it, then you have got £2500+ per month to pay the interest on £370K which at 4% is £1250 per month. Which gives you the balance for expenses and paying down the capital if you want to. So, instant profit, and the hope that the entire value of the property might keep up with inflation at 3-4%, in which case, it goes up by £1300-1500 a month anyway. It is a no brainer.

  • 92. blibble

    (09 February 2012, 02:55PM)  Complain about this comment

    I can not see anything else to do with substantial capital, that has so little downside risk. If everything goes pear shaped, then you just drop the rental and weather it until such time as inflation catches up again. There is no way that any of the political class will allow deflation to happen; they would rather we turned into Zimbabwe, and if that happens, any kind of solid asset is going to be useful - cash being held over time can only lose. In my view.

  • 93. ian

    (09 February 2012, 03:25PM)  Complain about this comment

    Printing paper money = devaluation ahead

    GOLD and International shares (with overseas income) will be a steady asset

    the £ and everything denominated in it (government debt, pensions, wages, savings, etc) will collapse in value - like Iceland.

    This way the politicians stay in government blaming others, the bankers continue with their bonuses claiming value-for-money etc. and the landed gentry with overseas holdings stay wealthy.

    The problem is that like Greece - when the dawn comes that the UK is now a paper-printing economy and has a terrible balance of payments, is insufficient in basics (food, oil etc) and imports most of what it uses- INTEREST RATES SOAR as do bankruptcies - causing house prices to collapse under forced sales

    sadly

  • 94. Graeme

    (09 February 2012, 05:00PM)  Complain about this comment

    Why is it that there's a correlation between extreme housing bears and gold bugs? I reckon that both asset classes are in bubbles, and there is an argument that prime London property is correlated with the gold price since both are seen as safe havens.

    I think that the most sensible choices are one of the following:

    (a) Rent. There doesn't seem to be any risk that property rises will rise in the short term, and there could be a downside risk if the economy dips back into recession or a sovereign debt crisis blows up. Re-evaluate your position every few months, particularly if rents continue to rise.

    (b) Find a property that will meet your needs for the next ten years, or can be modified (extended) to allow this. Over that time frame you're not going to lose out significantly if the market does crash.

  • 95. Bankers aren't stupid

    (09 February 2012, 05:00PM)  Complain about this comment

    Who made all the money in the run up to the financial crisis? BANKERS

    Who has been making all the money during the financial crisis? BANKERS

    Follow the money. What would make BANKERS the most money in the near term future?

    It's higher interest rates. We had a housing bubble based on cheap credit and liar loans. Since the financial crisis not a lot has changed about mortgage regulation and the B of E have continued to provide cheap money and propped up house prices. There clearly isn't the prospect of house prices rising dramatically from now. So the way for bankers to make more money next is to raise interest rates and make people pay more for their existing mortgages on overvalued assets.

    Of course the dramatic rise in interest rates will be "unexpected" ...except to bankers.

  • 96. Steve

    (09 February 2012, 06:10PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic, 95 comments - wow! To add my comment to the fray, buy yourself a home. Yes, a HOME. Your other half - and you - will love it. Forget about it as being an investment and enjoy it as a place to live and grow.

  • 97. blibble

    (09 February 2012, 07:38PM)  Complain about this comment

    To add another comment, Money Week has been banging on about the impending housing doom since 2004. (When I used to read it - I don't any more, needless to say). Since 2004 prices have doubled or more for prime stuff, and some less than prime stuff as well provided it is in a good location i.e. London near a tube. And, rents have gone up hugely, again doubling in some cases. Seven years is a long time to put your life on hold waiting for the crash that may never come. I would say the best thing is to buy sensibly, observe trends, have a contingency plan and listen to your inner voice. If I had followed my inner voice rather than Money Week's advice I would be 200K better off!

  • 98. blibble

    (09 February 2012, 07:40PM)  Complain about this comment

    Another comment, leading on from the last one, sorry to be longwinded. Regarding advice in Money Week, specifically because I did not follow their advice on some shares, I am far better off. I invested in Apple when they were about 70 dollars when Money Week decided that they would not buy a "slice of apple" and that it was over-rated. Well, they are now trading for about 500 dollars so I have to say it was a pretty good investment. I am sorry to say I do not rate Money Week - it's got more bears than a zoo and I think the old adage is right. That is, never take financial advice from someone less well off than yourself!!

  • 99. What a load of Blibble!

    (09 February 2012, 08:34PM)  Complain about this comment

    Blibble said: "I can not see anything else to do with substantial capital, that has so little downside risk. If everything goes pear shaped, then you just drop the rental and weather it until such time as inflation catches up again."

    One thing you don't want to do is buy property to rent. that will be a sure way to lose capital. Of course, if you really do have capital then you should act to preserve it. Buy gold. A no-brainer, dear Blibble!

  • 100. blibble

    (09 February 2012, 11:15PM)  Complain about this comment

    Thanks for the comment! I know everyone's situation is different. I bought quite a lot of gold in 2003, 2004 and onwards. I have well over a kilo of random coins. Point is, exactly WHEN is this of any use?? OK, martial law, civil breakdown, bla bla, yes OK I accept then it *might* be handy. But let's stay in the real world. Exactly how much gold do you think you will have if you keep it in a safe deposit in a bank, and the bank goes under? Or the state decides they have better plans for it? And/or financial meltdown, your ETFs are stuck and possibly worthless. Physical gold in huge quantities is a LIABILITY. Physical gold in the bank or deposit is not safe, in the event of the kind of catastrophe that makes gold the best asset to have. Unless you live in a fortess and possess serious security and firepower, you do not keep a house's value of gold anywhere nearby. And, when you cash in your gold, you basically surrender 4-7% in the dealer's "spread".

  • 101. Wallis

    (09 February 2012, 11:48PM)  Complain about this comment

    I have just bought myself a house after 4 years of renting. I have come to the conclusion the Central Banks are not going to let this global economy deleverage on an even playing field. They will continue to cook the books by QE therefore destroying my savings. I am getting nervous about my money in the banks so I might as well have it in property ! At least I can see it, not just on a screen in a bank account. If you measure house prices inGold since 2008 they have come a lot lower.

  • 102. Siegfried

    (10 February 2012, 07:38AM)  Complain about this comment

    Blibble, you would bee crazy to leave the gold with a bank. When you consider that some of the major banks are responsible for manipulating the gold price in the paper market, they have an interest in suppressing the price. As for liability, that's the point, gold is nobody's liability (opposite of what you say). As for security, you can keep it in other countries in a professional vault (audited etc). As for dealer's spread, that is peanuts compared to the capital you will preserve as paper assets collapse in purchasing power. Also make sure you have allocated (not unallocated) gold.

  • 103. Alberich

    (10 February 2012, 07:44AM)  Complain about this comment

    Wallis, you are probably right that Central Banks wont allow a massive deleverage which will be deflationary, so they will print billions more, as QE or use another name such as LTRO. So more paper swilling around as currencies crash. The strange thing is we will see houses getting even cheaper in gold, while energy and food prices will continue to rise. Also don't forget the downward pressure on house prices of demographic changes and unemployment.

  • 104. Dinosaur Dave

    (10 February 2012, 09:57AM)  Complain about this comment

    Dear Dominic,

    What to say to the champion of the British Dream ( Owning all of your house, not just the front door !), when they get an attack of wobbly resolve ?

    You have time on your side, I have been renting for eight years, while the perfidious powers that be, have sacrificed millions of futures and trillions of pounds on the altar of their conceit.

    Stay in cash that is cold, hard and shown it is metal.

    Think laterally, what about tail end leases i.e. 3 to 5 years, house sitting, boat sitting, commercial property sitting etc, etc.

    Folks like us need our champion to win. You know this because of the number of comments on this article.

  • 105. No brainer?

    (10 February 2012, 10:31AM)  Complain about this comment

    Blibble (91) "If you can buy a house for £525K and someone will pay £600 pw to live in it, then you have got £2500+ per month to pay the interest on £370K which at 4% is £1250 per month. Which gives you the balance for expenses and paying down the capital if you want to."

    What about the 40% income tax on any profit after interest is deducted? Doesn't leave you much for paying down the capital. If interest rates eventually rise forcing houses down, will rents keep pace?

  • 106. thirdtimebuyer

    (10 February 2012, 03:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    I have the same dilemma, having rented for three years I cam fed up having my rent increase every year for a flat that is freezing because I can't make any changes to it. So am buying a house with garden. Despite all the press saving no-one can get a loan the bank is happy to lend me 5 times my salary and I have a deposit from the previous house.
    I don't know if I am doing the right thing but if I can get a 5 year fix at less than 4% and my mortgage is £150 per month less than the rent then I think this is the right descision. At any other time this would be a no-brainer and everyone would say buying is the best decision.
    The government is too far down the money printing route to u-turn. I'm not buying the cheapest house out there as I know I will probably be there forever.

    As for gold; It's a shame all the people buying gold don't do something useful with it, like start a business that employees people especially the young which have horrendous unemployment rates.

  • 107. Ian

    (10 February 2012, 03:49PM)  Complain about this comment

    Price?
    -'economics' of aging-based supply, and 'affordable' demand
    -speculation - a bubble grew
    -fear based rush to safety (e.g. Greeks, Russians, even Chinese). Ebbs?
    -proximity to wealth creation, new technologies?
    A house decades ago rented by a dustman cannot be afforded by a senior teacher, instead lower grade 'homes' are built densely. The UK had an era of real house price gains - stats hide the quality distortion.
    Human psychology expects more of the past.
    Speculation? - BTLs highly geared inverted pyramid - collapse as interest rates rise?
    Wealth creation? - is in Germany, China and Asia
    The uk jobs base is largely govt+domestic services - with job cuts + inflation bites into wages - mortgages become unaffordable - plus interest rate rises!
    Now looks good if you are in a public sector job with a mortgage/pension – an illusion - until the IMF arrives
    House of cards? one riot, resolution of Greece, growth elsewhere
    - EU regulation of excessive gearing?
    =implosion

  • 108. Ian

    (10 February 2012, 03:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    Gold is nothing but a hedge against a collapse in the value of paper currency.
    Chinese and Asians and the Middle East like gold.

  • 109. Ian

    (10 February 2012, 03:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    Gold is nothing but a hedge against a collapse in the value of paper currency.
    Chinese and Asians and the Middle East like gold.

  • 110. Ian

    (10 February 2012, 04:12PM)  Complain about this comment

    I like Norwegian Krone as a hedge. :-)

  • 111. JREwing

    (11 February 2012, 10:37AM)  Complain about this comment

    If you are going to buy, get a 10 year fix. It is possible to do so apparently. Make sure you buy in a good location and at the lowest possible price (heavily negotiated). Also, make sure you buy quality that will hold value long term and which you would be happy to live in. Also, try to be flexible on locations - Balham and Clapham aren't the only good areas. Also think about the sub-urbs, the home counties are fantastic places to raise children. All in all, the key is to get as low a rate as possible and fix it for as long as possible.

    Five year fix is good, but ten is better. If I was back in the US, I would definitely unquestionably buy something either in NY, CT or some place like Florida (preferably ocean-front) and fix a rate of around 4.25 percent for 30 years. That is an absolute no-brainer.

    Lastly, if you choose to buy, please update us on how you got on! Good luck!

  • 112. Paul smith

    (11 February 2012, 11:02AM)  Complain about this comment

    I totally agree with you article but would wait and see want happens with the benefit reforms. I believe that the housing benefit now capped at £1600 per month is still too high and will change when the total benefit allowance is capped at £26,000 per year. I rent our house and pay £1300 per month but we have neighbours that rent a bigger house than ours and claim housing allowance of £1600. This supports the high rents being charged by landlords. This system must change, every country in the world that has put housing above everything else is now having a correction except the UK. Are the politicians in the UK that much better than everybody else.

  • 113. Kathryn

    (11 February 2012, 11:04AM)  Complain about this comment

    I understand your difficulty with house prices being so high but for me buying a house is a very long term investment. Our first buy was in 1974 and I didn't finally pay off the mortgage until 2001. In the meantime I moved four times, twice during the 90's when the market was similarly stagnant. However, I am now retired and have no mortgage or rent to pay and that is the position I have worked towards. It does depend to a certain extent on your personal circumstances but a house is not an investment like buying shares; it is a place to live and maybe raise a family.

  • 114. Michael Reid

    (11 February 2012, 11:16AM)  Complain about this comment

    Its a very complex problem and one I amcurrently wrestling with.

    I believe house prices will fall but I also believe all this QE and the devaluation of sterling must cause inflation -which will write off debt.

    For me the problem is will the fall in value of the house be slower than the writing off of the debt ? If so buy. If not don't.

    The full equation must be that projected rent for the next (say) ten years in aggregate needs to be less than total mortage payments in aggregate plus or minus any real change in property value-all adjusted in real terms -to enable a decision.

  • 115. kaf007

    (11 February 2012, 11:19AM)  Complain about this comment

    I am a house owner 45% geared and own gold. I am also a property professional but not a property investor - I helped others make good money but knew it had to end, unfortunately I missed the bandwagon, too much knowledge can also be a dangerous thing haha, but I also like to keep things simple and diversified. I believe in gold 'real money' insurance but have stayed on the property ladder for the following reasons: 1. with low interests rates I have a similar mortgage payment to market rent but have repaid way more capital than I have lost with its value going down; 2. if you sell for less you pay less, it's swings and roundabouts; 3. if you stay off the ladder the market can suddenly swing against you and you're stuck; 4 and more: for all the very important non-financial reasons, you can do what you like to your house, won't get thrown out, feels like 'home' etc.

  • 116. RogerS

    (11 February 2012, 11:23AM)  Complain about this comment

    The most important thing to secure is your long term income stream. Do a NPV calculation and compare to the potential losses or gains on your prospective property purchase.
    If you are a humble journalist I would get another better paid job in financial services. You have probably picked up enough already to know as much as anyone else.
    Once you have done that I would go to another country where the living is easier , cheaper and more enjoyable.
    On the other hand if you are a UK chauvanist merely looking to secure a roof over their head within easy reach of Blackfriars rd while the risks of world market turmoil are borne by others rent a flat in Camberwell and plan to marry well.

  • 117. Tim

    (11 February 2012, 11:51AM)  Complain about this comment

    @Bob 37

    Bob, Going by the amount of responses you'll probably never see this.

    The mortgage is with Natwest, variable rate 1.69% above base, interest only.

    And in answer to questions about how to pay it off. I have the cash right now to pay it off, but if inflation at near 5% and the interest on the loan at 2.19% I don't see any point

  • 118. Aljo

    (11 February 2012, 12:28PM)  Complain about this comment

    Timing is important but everyone needs a "HOME" and long term bricks and mortar will prove a good investment, it will and has to keep up with inflation.
    I am surprised that you will have to sell some gold to raise a deposit for a house purchase, you are obviously one of the many financial journalists whom depend on advising other people but not too successful in your own affairs.

  • 119. Our man in London

    (11 February 2012, 12:44PM)  Complain about this comment

    "...when America sneezes, a few years later, England catches a cold". Never truer than today. Our housing market in London and the UK mirrors the USA-it's that 'special relationship' that our leaders bang on about. Ofcourse, Cameron is trying to wriggle out of it now the chips are down, but in the UK, real estate investment is also 'not a clvever move'. Don't come crying if you buy now and are in negative equity in a few years.

  • 120. Kernow

    (11 February 2012, 01:23PM)  Complain about this comment

    Halifax stated value of entire UK Private Housing stock in 199 was £1.7 trillion and £3.8 trillion in 209. Of 14.6 Owner Occup, 11.2 million are mortgagor and CML state that they have lent 94% of the Mortgages at £1.2 trillion. A simple extrapolation of these figures reveals that the current £1.3 trillion debt on the mortgaged houses is the same as their valuation ten years previously. The selling price of an "affordable" estate house in St Austell, Cornwall, so unaffected by London factor or desirable location is £130,000 and the build cost of the property is £35,000. Generally, UK property is still four times overvalued, better than six times in OZ. I will sell you a nine bed 3/5 ths acre property with trout stream boundary for £400,000

  • 121. Jim

    (11 February 2012, 02:57PM)  Complain about this comment

    Please bear in mind the remaining high rent Housing benefit claimants are having their rents reduced around about now. Which affects virtually all London property. Max 1 Bed £250wk/ 2 bed £280wk these new rules were bought in a year ago to new entrants, but people already in flats were given an extra year. That is now ending and they are all being asked to leave. This is already having an effect on the rental market. Estate agents I know say its dead. This will eventually lead to forced sellers and price falls . All this before rates go up!!!!!!!

  • 122. The Name's Bond

    (11 February 2012, 03:23PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic

    I'm almost as shocked by your article as I was when you shaved your beard off and started wearing a suit.

  • 123. Mark

    (11 February 2012, 03:27PM)  Complain about this comment

    As the CEO of the bad part of Northern Rock said 1% on interest rates and there is a tsunami of repossessions, and when US economy improves (there are signs), the UK house price of cards will fall.

    In the mean time renters lobby through Shelter to get the Short hod tenancy improved.

  • 124. Julia

    (11 February 2012, 04:45PM)  Complain about this comment

    Slightly off the wall comment, but I as I was hoping for an insight into your thoughts on the property market, I was pretty disappointed to read an inarticulate piece that seemed to use the word 'hate' every other sentence. I tell my kids not to say hate and I think you should be a bit more imaginative too!!!!!!!!!!!!! It made really miserable reading.

  • 125. BabyBoomer

    (11 February 2012, 06:58PM)  Complain about this comment

    Well we all know that the Govt has been trying to keep house prices up, but what happens when it can no longer do so?
    I live 25 mins from London & there are hundreds of houses sitting empty - yet people are still hanging on... sooner or later there's going to be a stampede to the exits.

    I own my own house and I don't really care what the market does - its better for a homeowner if they go down because costs will be less when you eventually move.

    I don't save in a bank anymore, and I wouldnt buy to let in the UK either - the yield is less than 5% and prices are far too high.

    I get a far better return from Zopa.

    The financial world is undergoing a revolution. Things change, then again they always will - we're an innovative lot!


  • 126. Neil

    (11 February 2012, 07:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic
    The reason houses have accrued value over the years is due to the devaluation of the pound, they are printing billions of pounds devaluing the currency further. If you buy now then it is presumable there will be a dip when interest rates rise and the cycle will then continue, by then you will have quite a bit of equity built up in the property you own, the price will rise exponentially when the cycle's wheel comes around again. Never in history, to my knowledge has so much money been printed, it will end up somewhere, probably back where all this malarky began. Property.

  • 127. Nikwil

    (11 February 2012, 09:04PM)  Complain about this comment

    The whole of the article and majority of comments relate to - yes the centre of the universe. London. That godforsaken overpriced over populated,crime ridden hell hole that is the south of England.
    I would suggest that some of you try different UK areas to earn a living and buy, you may find that cheaper houses and a better quality of life are well worth the move. Where I live if you don't drop the asking price you don't sell, and plenty do sell - at sensible prices - that is the situation in the real world ex London!
    In a few months time when that other pantomime (Olympics) starts you may have difficulty paying both rent / mortgage owing to "transport issues". Get a life get outa there!


  • 128. NR

    (11 February 2012, 09:27PM)  Complain about this comment

    OK, my two cents worth. I feel gold and silver are being talked up using fear mongering. Yes, fiat currencies are not the place to be, but then neither is gold, as it has no use or income stream. It is as subject to the dangers of optimism raising its ugly head!

    I have a candian friend who preached gold and silver (especially silver) to me about 9-10 years ago. Sure, I could have invested and made money in that. However, I made a lot more by investing in a flat on borrowed money which saved me rental income, makes me an indexed stream on rental now as a rental property and has gone up in value on the leveraged amount I initially put in. And I have paid it off, so it is net income that has become part of my pension.

    By the way, my canadian friend also sold off quite a bit of his silver to buy a house in canada around 2006/7. He decided it was a good buy, knew the people who built it and thought of it as a long term buy for his family.

  • 129. NR

    (11 February 2012, 09:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    Oh, and remember no one holds gold for ever - at some point you want to use the stuff to do something with it, such as buy a house. When that happens, what happens to house prices, especially if a number of gold/silver bugs do it at the same time?

  • 130. Paul from Worthing

    (11 February 2012, 09:43PM)  Complain about this comment

    We escaped London 4 years ago to get better schools and have been renting in Worthing. But just decided to buy.
    Why? I gave all my best arguments to an estate agent for why house prices were still going to fall (recession coming, interest rates going to rise, historical ratio between average earnings and house prices), and he countered them all with another one. There is simply nowhere else for the relatively rich (top 20%) to put their money. Forget about saving (low interest rates) or shares (too risky). But buy a house and let it out: now there's a way to maintain your capital - even if it doesn't appreciate much - and get some income. So there are hundreds of thousands of forced 'buy to letters' ready to put a floor under the market.
    This has serious implications. We are going to quickly transition from a property-owning society to a renting society. And the division between the owners and the renters is going to be very big (and generational).

  • 131. d.andre

    (12 February 2012, 11:29AM)  Complain about this comment

    Well my advice will be to find a nice young lady to share your life and your mortgage, and I will recommend Kennington.
    It is so underrated and you can get a nice small house for under 500,ooo. There is an area near the old Lambeth hospital where there are new houses ; it is nice and quite away from any main roads.
    I am sure you can find something there. Lots of MPs live round there!

  • 132. Our man in London

    (12 February 2012, 01:05PM)  Complain about this comment

    @131 Ha ha! Nice try d.andre, but if you can't sell your £500,000 house in Kennington, I suggest you cut the price significantly (30-40%) if you want to bail out of London property. It's all 'for sale' signs in so-called up-market parts of London.

  • 133. roger

    (12 February 2012, 01:38PM)  Complain about this comment

    130 Paul, spot on. Foreign buying on a weaker £ also helps under pin the London market.

  • 134. Steve

    (12 February 2012, 01:41PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic, my man, don't do it. They'll probably let you borrow enough for you to lose all the money you've made on gold in the subsequent interest rate hike and house price crash. It's coming. Go over the back issues of MoneyWeek, with particular reference to the 18 year property cycle. The only reason it didn't happen in 2008 was because the government was terrified of a housing crash and subsequent depression. Hence the lowest rates for hundreds of years. ‘Capitalism without a bust is like Christianity without a hell.’ (Even Mr & Mrs. BuyToLet are still in business – how crazy is that?) The tide can be held back for only so long.
    Don’t be suckered into a huge loan. That’s what they want you to do. (And a calculation based on only repayments and rent slightly misses the point) Remember this when the crash comes – ‘recessions are the transfer of money from the poor to the rich.’ You’ve left it too late. Last one in – first one out, or maybe last one in has to do a runner.

  • 135. Wise

    (12 February 2012, 02:43PM)  Complain about this comment

    @ 130 Paul from Worthing -"...hundreds of thousands of forced 'buy to letters' ready to put a floor under the market"?! And 133 Roger - "Foreign buying on a weaker £ also helps under pin the London market."?! Er, hello?! 2012, not the 80's 90's an 00's. Get with the programme, people. I get 3.7% on 1 year bonds and 3.1% on instant access variable rate-and the base rate is hardly going to go down from 0.5%. I pay £500/month including bills in a £200,000 studio in a smart London suburb-the landlord gets an annual yield of about 2% (he pays all bills-council tax, heating ground rent etc). Saving wins hands down. You do the math(s)...

  • 136. Graham

    (12 February 2012, 04:15PM)  Complain about this comment

    Im in the sam position - ive been renting for 5 years and have forked out over 60k in rental ... the base rate looks cheap but the purchase price is high ... never can be the same !! low prices and cheap prices would be a dream!

    Ive decided that the purchase price is too high and am not tempted by the lower interest rates. after discussin things with local estate agents they have admitted that they are dealing wtih more and more repossessions and that people are having oi discount the prices to get buyers interested ....

    There is the old story that people give up just before the get what they want ... Im not giving up!!

  • 137. Graham

    (12 February 2012, 04:22PM)  Complain about this comment

    one last comment - what will you do when your fixed interest rate goes variable and you are paying 6%, 7%or 8% etc ... they will need to go up to stop inflation becaseu of money printing ... in my opinion!!!

  • 138. dean

    (12 February 2012, 08:21PM)  Complain about this comment

    If in doubt....do nout

  • 139. pony/lichfield

    (13 February 2012, 09:48AM)  Complain about this comment

    as a regular reader of money week for a few years,i am looking to go up market when the time is right, on a property ..and that is not now..will wait till the morg- rates have gone out of control,and then stabalized as house prices have to tumble...there just to over priced...and too much money borrowed against them...and the sooner it happens the better , the system is surporting thoes, that have borrowed up to the hilt..be patient..!!!!!

  • 140. Roberto Birquet

    (13 February 2012, 04:09PM)  Complain about this comment

    King Bingo
    So like you I hate the fact today’s young are being forced into obscene debt if they want children, all so the baby boomers can protect their bubblenomics asset valuations. If I could revolt against this Keynesian statism I would.
    -------------------------
    Why is it Keynesianism? Have you ever read Keynes? He was a heretic. Why? Becasue he warned that the economics profession had it wrong as it claimed that people make economic decisions based on rational thinking. No, he said, it is emotions. In a boom, there is excessive "animal spritis", leading to over-spending and overinvestment; in a downturn, it works the other way. His remedy was for governemtn to work counter-cyclically. That would have meant higher interest rates, and perhaps taxes during the boom of 1996-2007; and if that was not enough, lower govt spending, too,
    Yes, he called for the opposite during a bust. But following Keynes would have meant none of this would have happened.

  • 141. roger

    (13 February 2012, 04:49PM)  Complain about this comment

    135 Wise, and single?

  • 142. Jimmy

    (13 February 2012, 04:59PM)  Complain about this comment

    Try moving down the rail line a bit. In the time it takes you to go underground to the suburbs you can be in and out of Victoria. The Medway towns are many things but they are not 'country' and they are much, much cheaper than London. Try what the estate agents call 'upper Gillingham' or 'Darland'.

  • 143. Steve

    (14 February 2012, 11:09AM)  Complain about this comment

    Fixed rate mortgages are worth looking into. The Coop does a 10 year fixed rate at 4.79%. This could turn out to be a bargain. Bank base rate reached over 14% in the early 1990s. It could be worse this time round. (See bank base rates at http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/statistics/rates/baserate.pdf.)

  • 144. Rob

    (14 February 2012, 05:01PM)  Complain about this comment

    I find it interesting that someone who is supposed to be financially savvy has taken 10 years to work this out. If over 10 years you have paid an aveage of £1200 a month, I make that £144k, quite a nice deposit! Add to that all of the admin fees and moving costs that would certainly push it over £150k.

    You have to think in terms of a 25 year cycle when buying a home. Prices and interest rates will go up and down over that period, but rent will always only go up.

    People say btl is no good because you are only getting 5% but if purchased with 25% capital deposit that gets geared to 20%.

    I have a BTL, bought 10 years ago with a 10% deposit, that because of low interest rates has paid the mortgage and now delivers 120% of the original investment. I also have a pension that over 12 years is worth 80% of what has been paid into it and it is one of the highest performers.

  • 145. Wise

    (14 February 2012, 09:36PM)  Complain about this comment

    Please read the article by MoneyWeek Editor John Stepek Nov 23, 2011-"It doesn't matter what the government does - UK house prices will fall". http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/property/uk/first-time-buyer-scheme-uk-house-prices-14700
    He seems to have a far more rational and well-informed perspective on house prices.


  • 146. Bigger Housing Bear than Dominic

    (15 February 2012, 11:18AM)  Complain about this comment

    To me, Charles Gray's comment (at number 12 above) sums up the approach of those who've made money from property. He says: "It's surprising to learn...[Dominic] is still living in rented accommodation...Just goes to show that one shouldn't always listed to 'experts'...".

    I think someone should explain to the UK population that it is actually possible to invest in something other than Property and still make money. It's only my own case I know, but I've made more profit on my equity investments since Spring 2007 than I would have done from owning a property (even factoring in the large leverage effect that borrowing from the bank to "own" a property would have given me). I wanted to mention this as I too am "still" living in rented accommodation - and I'm not keen on the insinuation from Charles that it means I've somehow failed in life! It doesn't, it just means I'm actually thinking in detail about which asset class to invest in!

  • 147. GA

    (17 February 2012, 08:44PM)  Complain about this comment

    I am a property professional in London. There is no doubt that there is huge demand from investors seeking a "safe haven" and who consider that property is a good investment. This is driving up prices but for the short term in my view. Many find that a significant proportion of tenants soon run into arrears with little redress available without protracted court proceedings, that can take more than a year to get back possession and the money owed not recoverable. Arrears are running at an all time high. Investing in buy to let right now is not for the faint hearted and for many turns very sour indeed. This is so rarely publicised and I am increadulous that anyone thinks now is a good time to buy. QE may devalue money but until real wages rise, sit tight.

  • 148. Simon

    (18 February 2012, 12:33PM)  Complain about this comment

    BTL only works with reasonable reliable gains of a few pc in the first few years - something we can't rely on at the moment. Low or no gains are wiped out by taxes, maintenance, fees etc. Falls if leveraged, which you probably will be for tax offset, make for a leveraged negative return on capital. Ouch.

    The time to get into BTL was ten years ago, when falling rates equalled capital gains and ever cheaper servicing costs. Sooner or later interest rates will rise, then we're in reverse gear(ing)

    QE money is going to deleveraging the banks inflated balance sheets - the reserve tanks - not into the main engine of the economy. Fortunately the printed money will all be bought back once the economy gets going, so in theory the GBP money supply won't increase long term. Zimbabwe we ain't.

    The era of property as a sensible investment or cash machine is over for the time being though.

    By all means buy a home though, long term.

  • 149. markfly

    (23 February 2012, 05:54PM)  Complain about this comment

    Amazing..This guy "advises" everyone else what they should do with their money and he can't even afford to buy his own home!
    Owning a home is a play on the financing cost with massive "real asset" benefits in uncertain and (probably) inflationary times. It is the most tax efficient investment he could make and unlike Gold it pays a rate of interest. Gold in retrospect has been a lucky punt. Mortgage cost - rent would give him a pre tax saving. Add in security, ability to rent a room etc etc..Buy property at any time and any young person will benefit in the long run, but he is now "anchoring" his bad call not to buy earlier. Ask your parents.

  • 150. Jack Adams

    (28 February 2012, 01:15PM)  Complain about this comment

    What a completely strange article! I say that because, after four and a half years of being a MoneyWeek subscriber, this is exactly what we thought last year. In fact this is exactly what we did last year. Further, we are converting half of our new home into a flat so that we can pay off the mortgage quickly once the two year restriction on "early repayment" is reached. We will be slipping that "rental" into our bullion account whilst we pay a mortgage which is less than the price of renting a shoe box in Tottenham. This way, the first sign of rate rises and we are straight out of debt.

    Well, that's the theory will keep you posted on the practice results!

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