Britain's secret house price crash

By Dominic Frisby Sep 07, 2011

Dominic Frisby

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If you want to measure a market (or anything else for that matter), you need a reliable, consistent unit of measurement.

Sounds obvious. Why then do we rely on the pound, the dollar, or any government currency, when they are not constant measures? Their value is too often interfered with by governments and central bankers and their agenda.

Even that bastion of fiscal constancy, the Swiss franc, is vulnerable, as we saw with yesterday's announcement from the Swiss National Bank that it intends to cap the value of the franc against the euro.

Gold cannot be issued, printed, inflated or debased in any of the ways that dubious policy-makers find to suit the political whims of the times. So it makes for a far more honest and accurate unit of account than any government currency.

That's why I like to look at markets priced in gold. I get a truer idea of value, and of where we are in the business cycle.

Today we take our occasional look at everybody's favourite subject: the UK housing market – but priced in honest money.

House prices have fallen by 80%, measured in gold

According to the August data from Nationwide, the average UK house now costs £165,914. (That is considerably more – over six times more, in fact – than the average UK salary, which according to the Office for National Statistics, is £25,900 before tax).

Yesterday's London PM gold fix was £1,182 an ounce. So the average UK house now costs 140.4 ounces of gold. (And the average UK wage earner takes home the equivalent of 22 ounces of gold per year).

Here we see the latest charts from Tom Fischer, professor of mathematics at Wuerzberg University, which show UK house prices measured in gold since 1930. In the six weeks since 19 July when he completed this chart, UK house prices have actually fallen by about 6% (!), ie nine gold ounces.

UK house prices in ounces of gold

(Click on the chart for a larger version)

What a bubble our housing market was. In 2005 the average house cost 720 ounces of gold. So that’s a drop of 80% already. But from today’s prices, measured in constant money, I would say we have at least another 30% to fall, (that takes us to 100 ounces) or possibly 60% (which gives us 55).

Regular readers will know that one of my long-term targets is 100 ounces for the average UK house. I actually think it’ll probably go to 55, as it did in the 1930s and in 1980. But I’m saying 100 as I’m utterly confident that target will be hit and I want to bask in the glory of an inbox of congratulatory emails when it does so.


Lead indicators for Britain's economy

Gold/silver ratio:
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UK house prices?
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about to take off?


But London prices are being propped up by foreign buyers

To my considerable annoyance – as I live here – prices haven't fallen by anything like as much in central London. This is largely because of foreign buyers. For my podcast, I recently interviewed Jeremy McGivern of Mercury Homesearch, an agency which sources prime London property.

He observes that over 70% of London buyers spending £5 million or more on a property come from overseas. Whether it's from the Middle East, Russia, Europe, India or China, they're all looking for safe places to park cash outside of their own countries.

In relative terms, London property is cheap because our currency has been such a dog. To a euro holder, even if London prices are flat, they're down 20% by the time you adjust the currency. Very few of these buyers, adds McGivern, spend much more than a few days here per month. (And you wonder why Mayfair, Knightsbridge, Kensington and Chelsea are such ghost towns at night).

Here we add to the mix London and Scottish house prices since 1973. Thanks once again to Professor Tom Fischer for the chart.

Knightsbirdge house prices in ounces of gold

(Click on the chart for a larger version)

It's worth noting that while both Scottish and UK house prices are trading well beneath the 1991-94 crash lows – London house prices are still trading above them.

Much as I'd love to be, I'm not in the bracket that is looking to buy in Knightsbridge any time soon. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy the graphs, however, and Professor Tom, has put together this next chart showing Knightsbridge houses measured in gold.

UK house prices by region in ounces of gold

(Click on the chart for a larger version)

This is a much smaller sample size compared to say, the Nationwide index, so the picture is less reliable. Also, the latest figures (for 2011) are not complete, so the apparent drop in the price of Knightsbridge houses with five or more bedrooms may not mean that much. In sterling terms, as McGivern observes, they are probably trading for more than ever, but a lot of these do not show up in the stats. "'Also", he notes, "because there are far fewer transactions at that level and some five-bedroom houses are much smaller than others it doesn't really give a full picture, one of the many issues with generalised property information".


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But the overall picture for Knightsbridge is much the same as that of London. The trend since 2005-6 is down, but we are still above the lows of the early 1990s. Over 5,000 ounces – £6m – for the average Knightsbridge four-bedder. I must be in the wrong business.

However, one thing that could hurt prime London prices is a strong pound, as this would drive away many of the overseas buyers. I'm not as bearish as I once was on sterling – more on that another time. So I'm looking for falls, certainly versus gold. Who knows? One day you may even get on the Knightsbridge property ladder for a mere 1,000 ounces.

Why thinking in terms of gold matters

This subject of house prices and gold seems to attract more ire than any other, so, before you start venting spleens in the comments section, let me say two things. One, yes, I know the above charts do not take rental yield into account. But nor does the Nationwide, the Halifax, Land Registry, Rightmove or any of the other widely-used measures of house prices. I'm just measuring house prices in constant money, that's all.

Two, yes, I know that because you buy and sell houses in pounds, it is the pound price that is important. But it is vital for people to see the fraud that is 'pound price'. The pound, our national system of money, is flawed. No, worse than that, it is corrupt, dishonest and unjust. It is being systematically debased. It benefits the issuers at the expense of the holders.

You need to stop measuring markets in terms of flawed currency, and start thinking in sound currency. Otherwise you're falling for the con. The sooner large swathes of the population start seeing this, the sooner money gets reformed and the better off we'll all be – not only financially, but socially and morally. So spread the word, rise up, revolt, if necessary. Or if not that, at least measure markets in gold.

Our recommended article for today

It’s time to sell off the banks

The banking sector is bust, and it isn't going to recover any time soon, says Matthew Lynn. So the government should take Nick Clegg's recent suggestion seriously and hand over its bank shares to the British people.

• This article is taken from the free investment email Money Morning. Sign up to Money Morning here .

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  • 1. Kevin Dougall

    (07 September 2011, 10:55AM)  Complain about this comment

    Comparing house prices to ounces of gold is fundamentally flawed, simply because the price of gold rises and falls; and of late the price has risen to unsustainable levels.

    So, if the price of gold rises, you need fewer ounces (to match the average cost of a house). If the price of gold falls, you need more ounces. Try inverting the graphs and then compare them to the movement in the price of gold over the same period. You will be astonished by the result.

    And what good does gold do? Other than jewellery, it has no purpose whatsoever.

    Lastly, by comparing the average house price to the average salary misses one, fundamental, point. It is the average salary income (often two incomes) of those people who buy houses that matters. I suspect that by doing this you will find that the multiple of average salary to average house price is much lower than you quote.

  • 2. Peter Johnson

    (07 September 2011, 10:57AM)  Complain about this comment

    gold can viewed just like any other commodity whether its currency or a housing market average. Gold is valued by $......so if the US economy had been performing better then the decline shown in your graphs would not be there, demand for gold may not have increase and subsequently the graph could have looked the other way. I don't see the connection you are trying to make......

  • 3. rishi

    (07 September 2011, 10:58AM)  Complain about this comment

    I have never understood the phobia of not holding gold with a view to buy house because we deal in ££ in day to day life!!! by holing gold u r reducing u r exposure to the flawed and continuosly debased currency. Hold gold with a view to buy house and as n when u find a nice house, liquidate u r gold and buy the house! if this was done by someone in the last 3-5 yrs... cud have got a house for half price ( price of gold in ££ 3-5 yrs back was almost half of what it is today so gold bot 3-5 yrs back n liq today to buy house wud mean house at half price as house prices have been roughly flat over that time!)

  • 4. kaf

    (07 September 2011, 11:05AM)  Complain about this comment

    All good stuff. I keep looking at a letter I've drafted to Alex Salmond to have our new independent country issue a gold backed Scottish pound and restore our financial reputation after the Scottish banks went t*** up. We could then turn the tables and refuse English toytown pounds like some English shops illegally do at the moment with ours haha. We'd have to take our share of the national trillions debt but maybe we can wipe the slate clean with a one-off tax on the mega rich on the deal that we're starting from scratch with sound money and hence encourage saving - the seed corn of future investment (I'd also scrap need to sell houses to pay for 'care' by the way which also discourages saving). Would take some pain to changeover and that is where the politicians back off in our democracy, or maybe Alex will rise to be our 'beneficial dictator' hero?! I've been thinking about this since 1970's economics lectures but I'm always too far ahead of the curve.

  • 5. Rishi

    (07 September 2011, 11:09AM)  Complain about this comment

    @Kevin Dougall: cud u have missed the point of this article by a larger margin! the movement in gold price is reflective of the debased currencies and inflation!
    I dont agree with u r point as to what is the use of gold besides jewellery. As an engineer, I know the uses of gold. Gold is almost better when compared to any other metals and the only reason its not used is cause its expensive!! (imagine gold wires to carry current instead of copper! its much better but wont be used) the price of gold represents the scarsity of the metal and the flawed currencies that we measure it in. Measure the price of gold in price of CU or ne other metal and u will realise that the rise in gold price is not that substantial its only seen that way bcos of the govts round the world involved in " reverse Robinhood" tactics! they are steeling from the poor (via inflation currency debasement) and giving it to the rich (who own assets gold etc)

  • 6. annette

    (07 September 2011, 11:14AM)  Complain about this comment

    the price of gold is heavily manipulated too! so i am not sure your argument holds re measuring houses in price of gold. if you go to www.gata.org you will be able to read up on the ways that gold prices have been surpressed - thus your article is largely meaningless

  • 7. Rich in name

    (07 September 2011, 11:15AM)  Complain about this comment

    Good article.

    Going by 'bubble' psychology most people are still only at the denial stage (look at comments here and articles in other parts of the media), therefore houseprices are only just beginning to fall.

    Stages still to come are fear, depression, panic, capitulation and finally depression. So is an estimate of 55oz of gold to buy the average house a little high?

  • 8. Les Cal

    (07 September 2011, 11:19AM)  Complain about this comment

    Since none of us get paid in gold this article is entirely irrelevant.
    Whilst I agree that the currency is being systematically debased, this is still not an argument for reverting to a gold standard. if you revert to a gold standard, then the amount of money in circulation is limited to the amount of gold that is mined. This provides a massive, and artificial, restricyion on economic eexpansion. Economic success is based on the volume and success of human endeavour, not on the amount of gold dug out of the ground. So, whilst, fiat currencies have some major drwbacks, they beat the pants off a gold standard.

  • 9. biggles

    (07 September 2011, 11:25AM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic, interesting article. Setting aside for one moment many of the comments above, and assuming gold is a good measure, how do you arrive at your conclusion that 100 gold units is where we are heading? Your chart shows an average since 1930 of 215 gold units, yet you are saying that it should be 100 units, or quite possibly will hit a lower figure e.g. 55 units. Perhaps I am missing something, but I cannot see any logic or reason or analysis behind these numbers. I could understand an expectation to return to the historical average (215) [again assuming your fundamental logic is right], but what is the logic of a fall to 100 or lower? Thanks, biggles

  • 10. Neil

    (07 September 2011, 11:27AM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic, I am one of your long-term readers, and I can't believe we are now down at the 140 oz level, and soon to reach the 100 oz target you set all that time ago!! I wonder also if we will also see the silver 1,000 oz target in the not too distant future!! I enjoy your circumspect articles.

  • 11. Jack

    (07 September 2011, 11:30AM)  Complain about this comment

    Why was there no comment on the price of housing in gold before 2007? Gold price is subject to investment bubbles too.
    We should be pricing houses in terms of flour, or perhaps some consumable we need for survival. Then the relative price of shelter with respect to other necessities of life would be apparent.

  • 12. NVP

    (07 September 2011, 11:30AM)  Complain about this comment

    why not price houses in big macs ?...........its a global and homogenous product and more relevent than gold which has distorting features

    NVP

  • 13. Tom Brent

    (07 September 2011, 11:32AM)  Complain about this comment

    What this comparison also indicates is that we are roughly at the correct level for gold if measured against London property. Keeping generally sub 5000 oz, to 1998 shows a fairly constant relationship. Property prices appear to rise thereafter through both overseas investment and latterly a deflating pound/dollar. Thank you Dominic for your continuing well written and fascinating articles.

  • 14. Ben

    (07 September 2011, 11:40AM)  Complain about this comment

    Interesting article. As for the comments, to say that gold has no value is flawed thinking. Its value as a medium of exchange with limited supply ensures that, as it has for centuries, gold will still be a valuable asset for many years. You might not be able to eat it or power your car with it, but it serves another basic human need which is to store wealth, i.e. what you do with your accumulation of value before you swap it for tangible goods. As Dominic says, gold can't be manipulated by Governments and created out of thin air, it is an honest representation of value and unless we are going to go back to the days of swapping eggs for bananas or cotton for heating oil, gold provides a medium to trade with one another in the face of fiddled fiat currencies. It doesn’t matter that we are not paid in gold, what matters is that we transfer our credits (dollars, pounds, whatever) into something that doesn’t lose value the moment we put it in our pockets.

  • 15. Banker

    (07 September 2011, 11:46AM)  Complain about this comment

    The thinking of the writer is flawed. He equates any rise in the price of gold to inflation. In this case the converse should also be true. Any decrease in price of gold is deflation. Imagine a scenario - economy stabilises in 2015, prices of everything apart gold rise by about 3% per year. Gold collapses to $300 as trus in the economy restored. DOES IT MEAN EXREME DEFLATION as price of gold collapses? No of cause! As to buying gold at this price ... you might just as well burn your notes in the fire place. At this price (driven by extreme pessimists) the price of gold already incorporates the worst case scenario for which gold could be useful (if there is a war or major riots gold is no good anyway).

  • 16. Barry

    (07 September 2011, 12:00PM)  Complain about this comment

    Sigh. The idea that gold is a "reliable, consistent unit of measurement" is ludicrous. Just one look at a chart of the gold price over the past 40 years, inflation adjusted or not, in dollar or pound terms, shows you that gold is anything but 'constant money'.
    It is an entirely speculative bet, albeit one which has fared consistently well over the last 10 years. However, if you look at what happened in the early '80s, I can't see how you can maintain that gold is in any way reliable. That's not to say that gold won't go up any further - it probably will - but it's not a safe haven.

    The comparison between gold and house prices has value to someone - like me - who has capital to invest and is waiting to buy a house. I don't want to buy at today's prices, but I want to put money into something that will at keep it's value in real terms. Gold might keep it's value, but it may also crash spectacularly, and the risk of a crash at the moment is far too high.

  • 17. Greg

    (07 September 2011, 12:01PM)  Complain about this comment

    How do we revolt? .... or could we as a population set up a new currency independent from the BoE? Anyone interested? How much gold do we hold between us?

  • 18. Cooldude

    (07 September 2011, 12:03PM)  Complain about this comment

    Excellent article Dominic and I see it has caused a lot of fuss as usual. On the point of a Gold Standard not being practical I would like to disagree. Britain controlled its huge empire with the little old soverign. This was a period of steady growth and job creation and people could save money without having it debased. It produced a very mild deflation of roughly 1% per annum which reflected technological advances. Businesses could make long term plans in a secure environment. Compare that to the paper money mess we now have. It now takes around 260 paper pounds to buy one of the original gold pounds. This shows the level of debasement that has happened since 1913. By 2013 it will take a lot more.

  • 19. Supermarine Blues

    (07 September 2011, 12:06PM)  Complain about this comment

    Award to NVP for the most intelligent comment!

    I presume that Big Macs are only suffering mild deflation due to their 'chav' image, whereas gold is most definitely in a bubble.

    It would make a fascinating comparison.

  • 20. mr

    (07 September 2011, 12:07PM)  Complain about this comment

    Whatever the merits of comparing prices of houses with the price of gold (and I can't really see why you wouldn't do as well comparing them with the price of Mars bars or condoms, say), I have to ask what practical use is it? If you had had the foresight to invest in gold rather than in a house when you got married, for example, then you could buy something more wonderful today than you could years ago. But what would that have meant in your quality of life in bringing up children if you had them/

    Me? A bit baffled I'm afraid. But it is of passing interest I suppose...

  • 21. Virgil

    (07 September 2011, 12:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    Fascinating article. I started moving my spare capital into gold some years ago, it is interesting to chart its movement against house prices.

  • 22. John M

    (07 September 2011, 12:37PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic, you are right. Gold as the only unchanging money. I began evaluating shares in gold grams 3 years ago. It is depressing.
    Shares which have doubled or more in sterling, have lost value in gold grams. But I will still have to pay CGT!
    In most cases, I should have bought more gold at BullionVault not shares.
    The only good (lucky?) decision I took was to swap some gold for silver in 2009.
    What is also depressing is the inability of some commentators above to understand that the price of gold never ever changes, not for thousands of years. It is the value of fiat currencies which change and they all go to zero in the end, Zimbabwe style.
    QE, which is currency debasement and "stimulus" merely help fiats on their way down. We have a race to the bottom between the dollar, Euro and pound.
    All western governments' major economic policy has been to screw currency savers.
    Your only escape is to save in gold.

  • 23. Fruity Pimpernel

    (07 September 2011, 12:45PM)  Complain about this comment

    RE comments about using Big Macs as an alternative index of relative value, energy/economics blogger Gregor.us has written some interesting stuff on this - should be in the archive somewhere.

    In the related discussion regarding measuring the price of things versus commodities like flour, I was interested to read in When Money Dies (about German Wiemar hyperinflation) that a lump of coal could get you a cinema ticket when paper money lost all its value. Must've been a messy business.

    I wonder what the equivalents would be in the age of digital downloads and grid supplied energy. Don't think a bottle of North Sea gas is very practical.

    I suppose there are always whiskey miniatures and cigarettes.

  • 24. Whig

    (07 September 2011, 12:58PM)  Complain about this comment

    @banker - what planet are you on ? Confidence in the economy will NOT be restored by 2015, more like 2025 provided we see some genuine increases in productivity as opposed to the illusion of growth we have now and in the past 40 years.

    It's your thinking that's flawed - fiat money is a con and it makes no sense to price houses in it.

  • 25. Toadie

    (07 September 2011, 12:59PM)  Complain about this comment

    Charting a deflating asset bubble (housing) against an inflating bubble (gold) produces spectacular looking graphs. It's just a shame that the author allows his own prejudice to distort the message.

    Fiat currencies may be flawed, but the idea that gold is a sound currency is just utter nonsense. All commodities are subject to excessive speculation in both directions. Current price should never be confused with value.

    By far the best suggestion is to measure house prices against a big mac index. No speculators means it's far closer to being a real measure of value, as opposed to the bubble boys latest play thing.

  • 26. Jim C

    (07 September 2011, 01:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    Excellent article, Dominic, and I see it's brought out all the usual monetary canards - that you can't have an expanding economy without an expanding money supply, that gold is in a 'bubble' etc, etc.

    The only way I could see you improving this article would be to include in the graphs of UK house prices their prices vs. various commodities like oil, wheat, rice, or corn, or perhaps a basket of them (like the Rogers Commodities Index).

  • 27. Jim C

    (07 September 2011, 01:04PM)  Complain about this comment

    I must take issue with the idea that gold cannot be "issued, printed, inflated or debased" by governments . Governments have always meddled with the price of gold. Even pegging units of a currency to a specific weight of gold (the so-called 'gold standard' ) enables meddling because, at the stroke of a pen, a government can revalue what an ounce of gold is 'worth'.

    Throughout the '80s and '90s, governments suppressed the price of gold via central bank gold sales, gold leasing, and allowing the bullion banks to sell 'unallocated' gold, whereby every bar has multiple owners, variously estimated between 30 and one hundred each. This has artificially boosted the supply of gold, and, as more and more investors are demanding allocated gold, or even personal possession of physical, we will see prices continue to rise as the base of this fractional reserve 'paper' gold gets whittled away.

  • 28. Gerard dunbar

    (07 September 2011, 01:12PM)  Complain about this comment

    Well written artickle don Frisby, the only true positive statements written in money week , every currency in the world is being debased , except gold and silver, how long can they keep the ponzi scheme in fiat money running? When the sheaple wake up and see whats happening to there pound in there pocket it will be to late, the far east china Asia will have the monopoly on physical gold and silver. Check out page in china soon to open and compete with the lmba but un like London which deal in paper , china as gone for the physical gold and silver .

  • 29. Ed

    (07 September 2011, 01:21PM)  Complain about this comment

    @ John M

    If the value of gold never changes, then in real terms the potential return is zero. You buy it today with fiat currency and sell it in the future for devalued fiat currency. The only way to make a real return after inflation is to time the market.

    There are other places to put capital that offer real returns after inflation. Buying shares is one. Fundamentally you are buying a share of the 'means-of-production'. Companies overcharge for their goods and services to make a profit. Then you get a share of the profit. As the paper currency is devalued the companies charge higher prices, dividends go up and share prices follow.

    Renting out land and lending out your money at interest rate (buying bonds) are other examples of investments that can make real returns evens as the monetary base is eroded.

  • 30. Jim C

    (07 September 2011, 01:22PM)  Complain about this comment

    Using a 'Big Mac' index to look at house prices has some merit, in that their prices reflect commodities, labour, energy, commercial real estate, and overheads such as tax ... but only if the Big Mac itself has not changed in size, weight, or quality over the decades. And on this there is some debate.

    (as a general aside - Big Macs differ from country to country. So they're a dubious means of measuring currencies' relative PPP)

  • 31. NMR

    (07 September 2011, 01:26PM)  Complain about this comment

    Rishi - go back to (engineering) school. The electrical resistivity of Gold is 45% higher than copper's; making wires from them would mean adding another 6 coal-fired power stations to the 14 we already have. You might have been thinking of silver; we could switch a power station off if we used silver.
    Dominic - I'd love to read an article from you explaining how things might work if we did return to the Gold standard. Would economic growth be limited by availability of funds?

  • 32. Daniel

    (07 September 2011, 01:30PM)  Complain about this comment

    Good article.

    Moronic comment from Kevin Dougal....

  • 33. Mark

    (07 September 2011, 01:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    To all those that think gold is in a bubble, excluding jewellery

    how much gold do you own?
    how many of your friends and family own gold...or have ever owned gold?

    Maybe these people should look at what is written on a bank note or coin and they would realise that it is all based on a 'promise' and 'trust' They should also do a bit of research into the properties of money - paying particular attention to the 'store of value' property. Over centuries gold has maintained its purchasing power rather better than fiat currencies!

  • 34. Larry Larone

    (07 September 2011, 01:38PM)  Complain about this comment

    You are exactly right, and Kevin is wrong! Gold is not changing, it's the pound, dollar etc: that is worth less and less.

  • 35. Nigel Reed

    (07 September 2011, 01:47PM)  Complain about this comment

    Rishi @ No.3 is bang on - It's funny the media only recognises saving for a deposit in Sterling - So we all save our preciousmoney(.co.uk) in a high interest ISA recommended by the government only to receive up to 3.5% when inflation is 4.4% (and beyond) therefore losing an average of 1% to inflation on average when the price of Silver or Gold has risen substantially in the last 12 months. If the government had recommended precious assets as a form of saving then we would probably have a deluge of first time buyers entering the housing market right now!!!

  • 36. Toadie

    (07 September 2011, 01:51PM)  Complain about this comment

    Mark -> You need to do a bit of research yourself. Then you'd realise that assets purchased in fiat currencies usually pay a return, which compensates you for the ever decreasing purchase power. So fiat currencies are perfectly capable of being a "store of value".

    Where gold may have an edge, is as an insurance policy against systemic collapse. But that's a very different conversation.

  • 37. Matt

    (07 September 2011, 01:52PM)  Complain about this comment

    The day I get paid in ounces of gold is the day this ratio becomes relevant. Until then, it's just an auxiliary frame of reference.

  • 38. Tim Price

    (07 September 2011, 02:03PM)  Complain about this comment

    To anyone that would like to examine the history of money in greater detail, I cannot recommend highly enough Jorg Guido Hulsmann's 'The Ethics of Money Production'. But I warn you: it will alter your perspective on the current financial landscape. We are living through the perhaps terminal phase in a bankrupt credit culture. Fractional reserve banking and baseless fiat currency are inherently unsound, immoral and inflationary systems. We are now all paying the price. There are many reasons why gold has always been and will always be money: one is because its use has always arisen in a truly free market. No-one has ever been forced to use gold, or silver. Paper money, on the other hand, has always required a coercive state to enforce its use through monopoly privilege. But the interested should read Hulsmann. They may then want the revolution that we may be headed towards.

  • 39. Alex D

    (07 September 2011, 02:13PM)  Complain about this comment

    I think (or I'd like to think) that your main point is the utterly corrupt financial system we live under and you are telling us too spread the word, I have tried, but is not easy to get people to believe it. You are surely better placed to spread the word; perhaps you are being too subtle, why not come straight to the point and deal with Fraction Reserve Banking. I feel sure that if everyone realised that money creation had been cartelised into private hands for the purpose of making vast sums of un-earned income, we would soon shake of the yoke of our oppressors and the oppressive interest and tax, not to mention the ridiculous drive for growth and gross misallocation of resources.
    I guess most people would see my rant as the ravings of a lunatic, but I feel the key is to get people to put some effort into understanding FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING. You have access the forum and I see Merryn sometimes gets access to mainstream forums.

  • 40. Mark

    (07 September 2011, 02:18PM)  Complain about this comment

    Yes Toadie i'm perfectly aware of that - the point i was making was that gold is a good store of value not that fiat currency doesn't have this property. Many people say gold is useless but they don't seem to realise that it is useful as 'money' and is good at maintaining purchasing power compared to other assets.

    If everything was hunky dory with the world economy i would not be advocating gold at all. If you look at current 'real' rates of return you would probably realise that your statement that "assets purchased in fiat currencies usually pay a return" isn't really a great argument to use at the moment., especially if you are talking cash.

    Why do you think that central banks are so keen to print money? Its because western economies haven't a hope of growing fast enough to generate enough money to service and pay back debt so the only hope is to inflate the debt away! When real interest rates turn positive i will turn my back on gold.

  • 41. P

    (07 September 2011, 02:25PM)  Complain about this comment

    Toadie and Tim Price - insurance against systemic collapse and coercive states.

    Maybe gold is insurance against worse case scenarios. but surely only up to a point.

    What point? Well there's a risk of government confiscation, or worse, the risk of gold being taken from you at gunpoint.

  • 42. Alex D

    (07 September 2011, 02:31PM)  Complain about this comment

    Well done, I did not see your comment until after I'd posted mine, please try to reach a wider audience. (sentence removed by censors).

  • 43. Roland

    (07 September 2011, 02:32PM)  Complain about this comment

    Heartening to see so many still misunderstanding the significance of gold. Since currencies are no longer explicitly pegged to gold (at least for now) for gold to be the alternate world currency, it requires that the world implicitly accepts that it is so, without any nation or institution declaring it to be so. This meme is still in process but the logic that supports it's growing acceptance is rock solid. Gold has been a store of value throughout history for very sound reasons that remain today. The period from the 80s to lets say the start of the bull run in 2001 could very well be perceived as the aberration. A time when people, including myself, didn't even think to question the credibility of fiat currency. The rise in price of gold should be seen in context of both the economic situation and government responses since 2001 but also in the context of this world growing understanding that what gold has represented for millenia, remains.

  • 44. Orb

    (07 September 2011, 02:42PM)  Complain about this comment

    A disappointing article from my preferred source of market info...

    I'm not sure that I ever remember reading an article that links average house prices to interest rates: A TRUE house 'price' valuation would be more like {average house price} x {average mortgage rate}

    This is because a family will allocate a monthly budget to mortgage repayments that will not change; as interest rates come down, more of the budget can be allocated to capital cost, and nominal house prices will rise...

  • 45. Orb

    (07 September 2011, 02:43PM)  Complain about this comment

    Then, Gold, as a commodity exposed to speculators, cannot reliably be used as a guage either, because while it remains constant over the long term, it too is susceptible to booms & busts. So NVP has a point prefering to use an internationally available commodity not susceptible to b & b.

    All those who've claimed gold 'worthless' or 'pointless' or 'in a bubble'.... remember what you wrote today in 5 yrs time.

    Rise up? What the 'great' apathetical English public?? You're having a laugh! They've never had it so good!!!

  • 46. Geoffw

    (07 September 2011, 03:04PM)  Complain about this comment

    Surely "land" is the one sound currency we should be able to rely on. It is a finite resource that can't be created or destroyed and when things get really tough the owners of land will have a means of making a living. I would like to see a house price/land price index.

  • 47. Alberto

    (07 September 2011, 03:05PM)  Complain about this comment

    1) we earn pounds
    2) we pay things in pounds
    3) we pay houses in pounds too.

    4) That's why house prices are measured in pounds.

    Still too hard to get it ?

  • 48. Dee

    (07 September 2011, 04:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic, I have been receiving your news for some months now, and I do find your approach refreshing if a little acerbic, but that's ok too.
    I am a complete novice in the area of money, trying to educate myself and using your column as my teaching tool!
    So, please can you explain how the Pound is corrupt. I would really like to understand.
    Thank you.

  • 49. al

    (07 September 2011, 04:27PM)  Complain about this comment

    Gold has not been all over the place, fiat currencies have been all over the place (mostly down), this is highlighted by gold. Plot gold against anything that cannot be instantly printed ( oil, silver), no 600% spikes there. This is a very simple concept & I'm constantly astounded how much trouble seemingly intelligent people have with it.

    Gold is money.

    A lot of inane comments re "houses are priced in pounds!".

    Gold is no different to euros. If this article showed house prices in Euro / USD it would be exactly the same principle - the difference would be it would great because they have been devalued too. Its only by plotting against gold you can see the currency effect. Plot the same thing in oil, silver, platinum etc it'll look the same. The effect is best in gold as it has no other significant use, IE its core use is as money.

  • 50. A L

    (07 September 2011, 04:42PM)  Complain about this comment

    The article mentions that "London prices are being propped up by foreign buyers".
    One of the attractions for foreigners is the fact that they enjoy Tax Free Capital Gains on all their properties in the UK, according to the tax laws. Also, I believe that they are not subject to Inheritance Tax.

    U K is the only country in the western world that does not tax foreigners on the capital gains on properties in the country. I assume this is so because successive governments want to keep the house prices high, or is it a loophole?

  • 51. ian

    (07 September 2011, 04:56PM)  Complain about this comment

    The only relevant statistic for house prices is the earnings multiple required to buy a house.

  • 52. Orb

    (07 September 2011, 05:07PM)  Complain about this comment

    ian, re-read 44-45.... The earnings multiple does NOT take into account the interest rate, thus this is just as flawed as trying to use the nominal house price against anything!

  • 53. John M

    (07 September 2011, 06:46PM)  Complain about this comment

    @ Ed 29
    Yes, the return on gold is zero or slightly negative after insurance & storage costs.
    Gold is NOT an investment. It is safety from political and central bank meddling (unless of course they confiscate it again).
    To get a return you do need to invest in shares or property. However if you measure your total investment and return in gold grams rather than fiat pounds, you can get a very different answer.
    70% my share investments are up in pounds, but only 20% in gold grams. I would have done better just buying bullion.
    There was a press report some years ago of a couple who sold their house and put the full amount into gold. To reverse now they would have a budget 3 times as great even after CGT.
    Wish I had had the courage.

  • 54. Dr Bob

    (07 September 2011, 08:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    If you have no dependents and/or can afford to lose most of the money you invest, then go ahead and gamble in the gold market. Just remember though, that when it all goes pear-shaped, you can't be angry at Mr Frisby. It was your choice after all to believe just moronic "analysis".

    Just glance up again at his house price chart. The two big troughs coincide with the two most infamous gold bubbles of the previous century. Coincidence? With house prices in the UK set to fall further, all his graph really shows is the alarming extent of the current mania.

  • 55. Steve

    (07 September 2011, 08:41PM)  Complain about this comment

    In my view, a complete waste of time. Gold is too variable and we don't get paid in gold or buy a house with gold. What happens when the world gets its act together and the price of gold goes down, what does that then proove. We all know that we are getting poorer with inflation, buying gold is just speculating on yet another commodity.

  • 56. Phil

    (07 September 2011, 08:53PM)  Complain about this comment

    The point Dominic is making, as he has done frequently is to wake you up to the big con trick of fiat currencies.

    A few people have stated gold is measured in dollars. Yes, and if you use that measure you see how it`s going thru the roof, because the dollar and other currencies are being way over printed to keep the bubble inflated.

    Base currency is now at levels you could float the sixth fleet on. Yes this can be reduced once/if growth returns. But even if growth returns, will hyperinflation be able to be controlled? Probably , but not till more damage is done. Your pound / dollar will be weaker still.

    Every day of every week you are getting poorer. So wake up and use a different measure and discover the enormity of the continual dilution of your currency. Go to Greece and offer local currency, then offer gold drachmas and see what many locals prefer. You will get a good rate.

  • 57. Phil

    (07 September 2011, 08:54PM)  Complain about this comment

    Aside from this, if you choose to check, you will discover billions of this over printing is parked in the Fed by the big banks in their current accounts… we are going head long into yet another crunch as banks are distrusting each other again. I really hope they can solve this but the problem of liquidity is very real.

    Gold is a very sensible refuge, for a percentage an investment portfolio, no matter how small, and a very good hedge against inflation, which is exactly where we are now and will increase more over the short term.

    All real assets like land, property and indeed blue chip shares are good assets but none will keep par with a currency like gold.

    But if you don’t have assets, and rely on cash in the bank, be warned, you will lose the lot.

  • 58. Pete

    (07 September 2011, 09:43PM)  Complain about this comment

    Great article! Although too many of these comments are just depressing. The fiat currency system has become so ingrained in human minds in so short a time, it's scary.

    Just remember, you don't want to be holding money when the music stops.

  • 59. NORBUT

    (07 September 2011, 10:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    Only the foolish would assume that the ruling powers would allow Gold to "win the day"
    Fiat is here to stay get used to it.
    Gold is a ponsi trap and doing a good job.

  • 60. Phil

    (07 September 2011, 11:54PM)  Complain about this comment

    Norbut


    You clearly do not know what a Ponzi scheme is..neither do you understand what Fiat money is

    So you hold on to your paper,and see how many pints of beer it buys you next year, and the year after that, and the year after that..

  • 61. Matthew

    (08 September 2011, 12:26AM)  Complain about this comment

    Everything is relative. If you measure anything with anything else there will always be a bias one way or another and of course Mr market will always throw a curve ball in from time to time.
    I'm not a fan of the house to gold charts. As noted the price of gold can move about rather quickly. Governments can and do change the rules, taxes and could even confiscate at will. Of course they do this even easier with money which is why I think anyone would be silly not to have at least a small amount of gold, just as a hedge.
    Orb, I agree that a major factor on house prices is the interest rate. How long have we had an interest rate of 0.5%? and where have house prices moved? Pop quiz. what could move interest rates up? and how fast could they move.....

  • 62. Jim C

    (08 September 2011, 03:48AM)  Complain about this comment

    To all those who believe house prices are determined solely by interest rates - there are other factors, as well. Government-determined minimum deposits; local rates; stamp duty; possible introduction of CGT on profits; and changes in planning laws. The UK has plenty of land to build houses on; the major constraint is our present planning system.

    UK governments will be faced with the need to raise increasing amounts of revenue to pay down debt. I'm sure they'll QE their way out of a lot of it; home owners are too juicy target to ignore, however, and if they raise taxes on land ownership this will put downward pressure on prices.

    There is no safe, guaranteed investment. Real Estate is just as much a speculation as gold...

  • 63. anon

    (08 September 2011, 06:01AM)  Complain about this comment

    if they have started fiddling with the Swiss Franc of all things
    then you know fiat currencies are in trouble -- gold high as it is
    will go again . peopler refer to the gold price spike in early 80's and how it fell from grace --this time its different , the western world
    is broke , More QE is coming so Gold will increase , i dont see it as a bubble i see it as a logical palce to put money . the rich and the banks are buying it so do they know something we dont ?

  • 64. Rich in name

    (08 September 2011, 09:30AM)  Complain about this comment

    If an article that contains house prices and gold can trigger this much debate, how about a future article which explores the relationship between gold, house prices, religion and unhappy in-laws?

    It must be possible to produce a graph for this?

  • 65. Roland

    (08 September 2011, 09:52AM)  Complain about this comment

    I think gold sparks so much debate because, whether consciously or not, we recognise it as probably the single most important indicator of the issues facing the world economy.

    If you believe that money saved is money wasted you will not understand why gold continually rises in the current climate and you will be happy to see more QE.

  • 66. al

    (08 September 2011, 10:12AM)  Complain about this comment

    Steve - 55. " What happens when the world gets its act together and the price of gold goes down"

    Have you been watching the debt ceiling debate / the Euro debate?

    When exactly are you thinking the world will get it's act together? Next year? During the most bitter US election in 50 years? Maybe during the German elections? Or the French elections?

    And again, gold is not variable, the Fiat currencies are variable, gold just highlights this. That is such a simple concept.

  • 67. roofovermyhead

    (08 September 2011, 10:42AM)  Complain about this comment

    could you have lived in 720 ounces of gold for the past six years ?

  • 68. iggle_piggle

    (08 September 2011, 11:11AM)  Complain about this comment

    A big macs vs house prices chart may be of some academic interest, but how would you translate that directly into an investment? Go to McDonalds and spend all your savings on Big Macs with the intention of trading them in a few years down the line?

    So you don't get paid in Gold. You probably don't get paid in Shares, Bonds, Houses, Art (or Big Macs for that matter) either.

    This is an investment magazine intended to inform your decisions on what to do with your SAVINGS. Whether you agree with the analysis or not is one thing, but to those who don't see the point in even making the comparison, what are you doing reading an investment magazine?

    Dominic, next time you do an update on Gold vs HP you should link back to the previous sequence of articles to demonstrate the continuity of your analysis; and highlight the investment return since your first Moneyweek article on this subject (circa 2007, I think) and each subsequent article.

  • 69. Matthew

    (08 September 2011, 11:16AM)  Complain about this comment

    @ roofovermyhead

    Yes, if you made it into a house shape and put a bit of pluming in! :P

    Sorry a silly comment requires a silly answer. I think everyone knows needs that they need a place to live. The comments are really comparing investments in real estate with gold. As noted gold doesn't pay an income but it also doesn't need any repair. There is no safe, guaranteed investment. Even leaving your money in a bank account carries some risk.

  • 70. Matthew

    (08 September 2011, 11:17AM)  Complain about this comment

    The thing is, in the worst situation. When money become worthless. Gold and Silver can be traded for things that you need. If money doesn't become worthless and you need a home or food then gold or silver can be traded at spot price easily into whatever currency is around at the time. If your money is tied up in an property investment and you need to cash it in to buy food, water whatever. No-one is interested because the area has gone downhill, or people are moving away from it for some other reason, you can't rent it, it falls into disrepair. Then you can say that I just have a lump of metal but you just have a pile of bricks and I can take my lump of metal for a fresh start in a different location...

  • 71. Margaret

    (08 September 2011, 12:21PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic, brilliant article, just sad to see so many biased comments and lack of understanding of the 'Value' vs 'Price' argument.
    EVERY asset class has a MEAN VALUE & throughout history PRICES will rise, revert to its mean and fall whereas VALUES go from undervalued to overvalued to undervalued and back again, over and over. So property investors are angry, gold investors are happy because that's were we are presently in today's world.
    Many people don't understand the value of an asset vs its price in any currency, otherwise they would stop chasing whichever asset class is the hottest.
    Comparison of gold vs houses can be applied to stocks, commodities, agricultural products, oil, industrial metals, etc... It's so vital to stop measuring value with the currency! Perhaps an article on the matter is warranted....and please don't give up on us.
    Also, for the gold/currency skeptics, remember you can always sell your gold and buy just about anything in your currency....

  • 72. Michael

    (08 September 2011, 01:22PM)  Complain about this comment

    Excellent article as usual Frizzers. Judging by some of the comments I don't see how some can claim gold is in a 'bubble' when the general populations ignorance of gold is so staggeringly high.

  • 73. Margaret

    (08 September 2011, 02:04PM)  Complain about this comment

    Let's look at some comparison is Australia for all the people that cannot grasp 'Value' vs 'Price' argument...
    1 oz of gold: AUS$1,750
    Median Sydney property price: AUS$640,000
    Yearly average gross salary: AUS$68,000
    Thus,
    It requires 366 oz of gold to buy a property in Sydney; Aussies earn 39 oz of gold a year, and it costs them over 9.4 times average salary to purchase a property.
    When you compare the VALUE rather than PRICE in any currency against any asset class than you can see what's undervalued or overvalued and act accordingly. Compare these Values to UK to US values ten years ago and you must get the picture! You can see how monetary systems of the world can confiscate your wealth if you are not informed. So start comparing your investments (not big Macs please) in Values and protect your wealth and switch your portfolio of assets accordingly. We cannot change their rules but we can outsmart them.... I hope that helps...

  • 74. I give up

    (08 September 2011, 03:07PM)  Complain about this comment

    Preposterous Dominic

    Did you really think you could successfully bring to the attention of Johnny and Jenny btl the shortcomings of fractional reserve in terms they might actually comprehend?

    Let all the naysayer's comments be a lesson to you and in future just leave them with their fiat and their ignorance to the mother of all heists currently being perpetrated against them by HMG

  • 75. Bob Conolly

    (09 September 2011, 05:12AM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic you are absolutely spot on.

    My wife and I sold our UK property in early 2007. We took exactly 1/3rd of the sale price and invested in Gold Bullion.

    Today our gold bullion will now buy back our 2007 property in full (@ 2007 sale price) with plenty left over for extras.

    Still don't get it folks ?

  • 76. d.andre

    (09 September 2011, 04:50PM)  Complain about this comment

    A statement of fact:
    In 2007 houses in my street, in the Middlands, were selling for about £700,000, my friend's house in London was about the same price.
    Recently a neighbour sold her house for £600,000, but in my friend's street a house sold for £1,300,000.
    Who was stupid enough to move out of Lodon for a better job? House prices in Lodon are from a different planet.
    Now I have no chance of moving back!

  • 77. Steve

    (10 September 2011, 12:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    75, Bob Collony. You could of bought a lot of other commodities other than gold and still get the same results. Certain conditions puts up the price of certain assets and if you are in the right place at the right time you can cash in on that. At this moment in time, gold just happens to be the 'chosen one' but it could easily be many other assets.
    If you want to invest in an asset, that is fair enough but why bother comparing an asset to house prices, because if the asset has gone up in currency terms then it is obviously going to get you more for your money.

  • 78. Boris MacDonut

    (10 September 2011, 05:20PM)  Complain about this comment

    In pints of real ale my house cost 92,000 pints in 1998. Now it is worth 110,000 pints,up just 20%. In 2007 it was worth 13o,000 pints so is down 15% since the credit crunch.
    I'm off to do the calculation in jelly babies now in order to add some seriousness to the debate.What a poor article.

  • 79. kaf

    (12 September 2011, 08:02AM)  Complain about this comment

    Sell your gold once all the naysayers 'get it' and even then, only when you can get 80's style positive interest rates on your savings, say at least 6%, oh but by the way where will your house price be if mortgage rates are at 8%? I thought that all money printing and low interest rates might boost property prices as well but although it has done so at the very top end, it just seems to be propping up the property bubble and even then only in £ terms as Dominic's article illustrates. Why are politicians so much more terrified of 'corrections' than they were in the 80's - oh I know, we had a dictator then as well (maggie).

  • 80. jake

    (12 September 2011, 01:15PM)  Complain about this comment

    Another great article!

    It's laughable so many people just don't get it and haven't even researched it before making emotional statements which prove their lack of knowledge. Poor muppets! Still... more gold for the people who do.

    Wonderful stuff Dom! I'll look forward to the next article around the 100-110 mark, (spring '12?) And don't forget to give silver/houses a mention too.

    Houses@55gold and 1000silver-Bring it on!

  • 81. BUFFETT

    (14 September 2011, 07:38AM)  Complain about this comment

    PART 1
    Folks. Comment 29 from ED says it all. GO BACK AND READ IT.
    GOLD does NOT give a real rate of return. Only businesses for profit do. And real estate is a business ( Remember it provides a yield).
    And what about all this fuss about central banks printing money to debase fiat money ? None sense friends. As you should be aware banks are not lending as once was the case and this fiat currency is being used to shore up a reduction in money supply as a result of reduced bank lending in an ongoing deleveraging process to ultimately prevent deflationary risk which killed Japan.
    So why has Gold risen so far so fast and why have we entered a phase of mispricing ? Because Mr. panic is the creator of asset mispricings and he just loves to hide in GOLD. Mr. panic is a quick spreading virus creating upward spirals in GOLD prices through negative feedback loops.

  • 82. BUFFETT

    (14 September 2011, 07:41AM)  Complain about this comment

    PART 2
    Whilst selling property and buying GOLD in 2007 would have been a profitable trade, Mr. Long Term will eventually rewake and realign current mispricings in Gold vs. Businesses (Real Estate/Stock) vs. Fiat Currency.
    And when will Mr. Long Term take over from Mr. Panic ? When the social mood cycle enters an inflection point i.e. when people start becoming less pessimistic.
    So why are some smart money managers pitching GOLD ? Because they are riding Mr. Panic for their personal short term gain. They are long GOLD and will exist in droves once the mood inflection point nears.
    So then how do we position our assets for optimal growth in these turmoil times ?

  • 83. marcopolis

    (15 October 2011, 11:43AM)  Complain about this comment

    gold price versus house prices is an interesting comparison - similarly I wonder how house price trends stack up against say mars bar prices and acres of land used for ostrich farming in the uk ?

  • 84. Pete

    (28 October 2011, 01:58PM)  Complain about this comment

    Bollingbrookeinstitute.org, get their free download, "the secret hidden world of commerce" then find how just so true this is

  • 85. Pete

    (28 October 2011, 02:27PM)  Complain about this comment

    Got a "mortgage" or even know what one is? this opened a lot eyes , made in NZ but equally applies in the UK, canada, usa etc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJdwX_7mVhg

  • 86. Petar

    (07 November 2011, 11:45AM)  Complain about this comment


    An interesting point of view, and I think closer to reality than £ valuations (of anything...)

    The trouble of identifying an undervalued asset which will then turn fairly-or-overvalued during the investment's intended lifespan still remains.

    Short of additional massive shocks to world economy (and the ensuing panic), gold could easily drop making an investment into a house a better one (as of today)...

  • 87. Son

    (19 December 2011, 01:37PM)  Complain about this comment

    I think Buffett summed it up well there.
    Only need to look at Rothschild to see how to play the markets

  • 88. uncle jimmy

    (21 February 2012, 06:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dollar comparisons and inflation adjusted are maybe more relevant as for now dollar is still global currency and stationary house prices mean real drops of 4% at moment, which is hardly insignificant. Last 4 years probably see 40% drop taking these into account ?

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