The most dangerous bubble of all

By Dominic Frisby Sep 21, 2011

Dominic Frisby

Share with
friends:

Comments (35) Print this article

The word 'bubble' gets bandied about a lot.

Many people get hot under the collar arguing over whether something is in a bubble or not. But, just as in heated inflation-deflation debates, few take the trouble to agree on a definition first.

I've always rather liked my definition. 'A bubble is a bull market in which you don't have a position'. There's nothing so frustrating as seeing someone of undoubtedly inferior intelligence earn fortunes while you're sat on the sidelines. So you declare his market a bubble.

But I doubt my definition will ever make it into the conventional lexicon, so we'll have to agree on an alternative in today's Money Morning, as we consider whether the government bond market is in a bubble or not…

A confession - I hate governments

Let me first declare a vested interest.

I hate governments. I loathe and despise them, all of them, even the good ones. I don't know if I'm a libertarian, an anarchist or just a plain old crank, but I trace the blame for so much ill in the world – from war to poverty to the destruction of the environment – all the way to governments.

So, let's just say, I'm a little bit biased.

The UK and US government bond markets are both, very much, 'bull markets in which I don't have a position'. (And I'm glad I don't. Those that know me well might well declare that I am a man of few principles, but I have enough to draw the line at lending a government money. Think what they might do with it.)

But are developed government bond markets in a bubble? Let's use King, Smith, Williams and Van Boening's 1993 definition: a bubble is "trade in high volumes at prices that are considerably at variance with intrinsic values".

At present the US government can borrow money over ten years and pay under 2% a year. Germany need only pay 1.8%. The UK can borrow at 2.3% – considerably lower than inflation, which sits between 4% and 5%, depending on what measure you use. (And bear in mind that real inflation as suffered by the man who wants to eat, drink, travel and keep warm is considerably higher.)

If somebody approached you and said: "Psst. Have I got an investment opportunity for you! Lend me money and I'll guarantee you'll lose 2% to 3%, year in, year out." Unless that somebody was extremely charming – or armed – it's unlikely you'd see this as an 'opportunity'.


Lead indicators for Britain's economy

Gold/silver ratio:
A warning for the markets
Where to next for
UK house prices?
Is Britain's inflation
about to take off?


Government bond markets are a huge bubble

Yet, as Allister Heath writes in The Spectator this week, "UK and American governments can be loaned money – and, in effect, be paid for the privilege. This is crazy. It shows that the bond markets are well and truly in major bubble territory, their valuations as absurd as the rocketing subprime properties of yore."

Our own Merryn Somerset Webb is fond of posting her long-term chart of UK interest rates (see below), declaring it: "The most important chart you will ever see." For all the charts I've posted over the years, I kind of agree with her. You can see just how absurdly low the bank rate is right now – indeed, it hasn't been lower in over 300 years.

UK bank rate since 1700

Sure, these are short-term interest rates rather than long-term ones. But if you ever needed a single image that sums up just how distorted our financial system has become, this chart is it.

We know that both the US and the UK are broke. We know that they are systematically trying to devalue their currencies. We know that they have no hope of paying back their debt obligations. And we know that in an environment of higher rates they wouldn't even be able to service the interest on their debt. So why lend them money?

I don't know when this will unravel. But I know it will. This is an artificial situation and Mother Nature will not let it last.

Where will money flee to when the bond bubble pops?

So here are two things to think about. First, there's the speed at which it could unravel. In late 2009 ten-year Greek debt was at 4.5%. Now it's nearer 25%. 25% interest rates! Imagine that here.

Second, there's the sums involved. The easy money of the Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke era has been 'invested' in government bonds. Large portions of the titanic wealth that has built up in the Far East and in the resource-rich nations over the last ten years has made its way into the government bond market. The stock market tanks and more money flees to the comparative safety of the bond market. Where is all that money going to run to when the bond bubble pops? Something shiny and yellow maybe?

For now, bonds are finding a bid. I've called the top before back at the end of 2008 and been wrong. So I'm not saying it'll be over tomorrow or even next week. But I am saying it can't go on forever and it's reached the levels of silliness you find at the latter stages of a bull market.

Here we see a long-term chart of US government bonds. You can see the steady rise higher and higher.

US 30-year Treasury bond prices

We could be making a double top here and now. I don't know. But I shall be watching that lower, rising trend line. If that breaks, it's guns, cans and hills time.

As Heath writes: "If debt starts to be priced at normal rates, the adjustment will be agonising – not least for Osborne's government. How many Brits would be comfortable if their mortgage interest rates went back to 6%, which was normal, even cheap, for so much of our recent history? Or 10%? Trillions of pounds' worth of pension and insurance money is invested in bonds, so when they crash it will destroy wealth on a massive scale. Stock markets will fall, in some cases severely, while the great property boom will give way to a crash – as the cost of mortgages climbs permanently higher."

In short, if you thought 2008 was bad, if you think now is bad, just wait for this one to pop. It'll be monetary mayhem and you'll be mighty glad you've got your gold.

I should add, spiralling rates will eventually be bad news for gold. They did for it in 1980. It's part of my end game scenario. But in 1980 it took rates at over 15% to kill gold's bull market. We know the world can't even take rates at 6%. In the monetary mayhem that would ensue during the spiking rates of a collapsing bond market, that's when gold will go really ballistic. And it won't stop till they get the bond market back under control – and gold is legal tender once again.

Our recommended article for today

Could hyper-volatility kill the stock market?

The growth in high-frequency trading has made stock markets incredibly volatile. Stocks are now held for just fractions of a second, exploiting tiny movements in prices. But it is destroying the markets that are vital to a healthy economy, says Matthew Lynn.

• This article is taken from the free investment email Money Morning. Sign up to Money Morning here .

Comments (35)

Share with
friends:

Comments

  • 1. Max Stirner

    (21 September 2011, 11:05AM)  Complain about this comment

    Excellent article! The keynesian world of everlasting stimulated boom comes to an end. Hopefully after this desaster, people will come to their senses again and return to sound economics, that is austrian economics. But I bet they will first sing the song that noone was able to see this coming.

  • 2. MaxStirner

    (21 September 2011, 11:06AM)  Complain about this comment

    Excellent article! The keynesian world of everlasting stimulated boom comes to an end. Hopefully after this desaster, people will come to their senses again and return to sound economics, that is austrian economics. But I bet they will first sing the song that noone was able to see this coming.

  • 3. cooldude

    (21 September 2011, 11:24AM)  Complain about this comment

    Spot on Dominic. Bonds are the final bubble to pop before we end this latest experiment with unredeemable paper money. These experiments always end badly and we will once again learn that a finite commodity based money supply is the only way to achieve peace and prosperity.

  • 4. SteveTuson

    (21 September 2011, 11:26AM)  Complain about this comment

    I have long had a feeling that interest rates have been too low for too long. The whole Maastricht Treaty seems flawed. It's all well on paper but unfortunately people are creatures of habit following the lemmings to the cliff. They want what has worked. By definition when everyone does what everyone else does then doom for that asset class is inevitable. People "understand" property in the sense that it is 4 walls and a roof. But they don't understand how perilous (too) cheap money, unerring greed and often tax breaks to boot. Some proper inflation and a return to normal 6-7% interest rates and there would be disaster. same for bonds and eventually gold (we can't all buy it).

  • 5. Edmund Kurridy

    (21 September 2011, 11:32AM)  Complain about this comment

    "I hate governments. I loathe and despise them, all of them, even the good ones."

    Great to hear that even Money Week has space for an all-out anarchist. Just as long as, after they sweep away the state and all its organs of coercion, y0u can organise all the small tribal groupings of 150 or so people (which is how humans organise themselves in order not to need governments) to pass my copy of MW along the chain from printer to my house every Friday.

  • 6. Graham Wadsworth

    (21 September 2011, 11:34AM)  Complain about this comment

    Good article. Politicians and Government are useless. Look at how many people they have killed in wars and conflicts over the past 100 years. They have now got the world into this economic mess and it will be reality, ie the markets that will resolve it by forcing the hands of the politicians. What a way to lead - being compelled by events.

  • 7. arthur

    (21 September 2011, 11:36AM)  Complain about this comment

    1973 ,400 million usd issued now 8 trillion,1973 gold 25 usd now 1800,which went up more ?.Granted 14.7 trillion debt makes greeces 365 Billion look small so America in trouble but remember the Tulips and south sea islands ,platinum underperformed gold by 30 % in the last 6 months ,is platinum not a store of wealth ,when the finacial system collapses ... traders will only accept gold? .Gold bulls beware its only worth what the next person is prepared to pay ,10% of ifa s now say you must have gold in your portfolio up from 6% three months ago ( sheep baaahhhh).Love it blow it up so that it can be pricked

    Momentum will make it go higher than it should but its not something for a conservative portfolio.If an index went from 1500 to 1900 in a month and then fell to 1710 in a week would you be putting your widow and orphans into it?.


  • 8. Pusser

    (21 September 2011, 11:37AM)  Complain about this comment

    I hope my post does not ruin your creditability but I thought y0ur article excellent and the government quotes echo my own feelings.

  • 9. Barry

    (21 September 2011, 11:53AM)  Complain about this comment

    And everyone applauds and agrees regarding gold once again. Does anyone really think that countries will actually go back to the gold standard? Also, even if they do, governments throughout the 20th century didn't have a good record of sticking with the gold standard, so what makes everyone think that they'll be any more faithful in future.

    I agree that a lot of harm has been done in Keynes' name over the last decade, but that doesn't mean that people will recognise this overnight and be sensible. The bank(er)s don't want the gold standard, so we won't get a gold standard.

  • 10. Cheap Charlie

    (21 September 2011, 11:54AM)  Complain about this comment

    Respectfully, are you using the word "bonds" as shorthand for "US and UK government bonds"? Aren't there other sorts of bonds in the world (corporate, emerging markets, etc)? Might these be different? Or do you feel that US Treasuries are so dominant that they would take all other bonds down with them?

  • 11. Nicholas Wilton

    (21 September 2011, 12:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    You give the impression that gold is not legal tender. Surely it is - which is why sovereigns do not attract capital gains tax if sold at a profit.

  • 12. Roger

    (21 September 2011, 12:21PM)  Complain about this comment

    Great article Domonic, but has gold not just formed a double top ?

  • 13. Whig

    (21 September 2011, 12:25PM)  Complain about this comment

    Outstanding article!

  • 14. Justwonderin

    (21 September 2011, 12:36PM)  Complain about this comment

    I love the head for the hills bit Dominic!

    What about this for a scenario...

    - West follows Japan into Zero Rates and stays there
    - Muslim world Middle and Far East - Shariah says "we don't do Interest"
    - Government bond holders (China) suffer the Dominic burst bubble to get out of negative rates to Zero
    - Threat of massive Inflation and Interest Rates surge starts off
    - New commodity based currency makes the BRIC's look really good
    - Reciprocal debt forgiveness effectively agreed by exchanging Weimar levels of Dollar/GBP/Euro value for the new $BRIC
    - Lending restarts based on real values

    There are alternatives to "only Keynes", "only Austrian" and "only Sharia", let's start moving towards cooking up something new here. "Fusion Economics" You heard it here first!

  • 15. Tony Hart

    (21 September 2011, 12:49PM)  Complain about this comment

    Great thinking, Dominic. Now read today's Daily Mirror and read what that despicable tabloid is thinking (if thinking is the right word!!). It's not just governments, it's the ghastly gutter press.
    Where does 'guns, hills and cans' come from?

  • 16. Dan J

    (21 September 2011, 12:57PM)  Complain about this comment

    But Dom, if western govts continue to print money and buy their own bonds with it, where is the colapse in the bond markets going to come from? Even bond market vigilantes would need to be super brave to challenge an institution armed with an unlimited supply of money.

    Both Bernanke and King have decided to ignore inflation and continued to print money in the face of it. So surely we will get crazy inflation before the bond markets colapse? Its a fine balancing act but if western govt's (and their central bankers) can keep people's inflation expectations in check they can (to use a US banker's phrase) 'keep on dancing.'

    With tools available to help govts distort the 'official' inflation figures (e.g. by continuing to change the basket of goods) and the fact that the inflation numbers only look back over the last 12 months, everything is on the side of govts continuing to make fools of people and punishing them through the stealth of inflation.

  • 17. Les.w

    (21 September 2011, 01:21PM)  Complain about this comment

    Good article - I agree re governments, although wars are a good way of keeping population numbers under control... and supranational organisations like the UN and EU are even more corrupt and incompetent. Current forms of western government, for all their faults, are probably the least worst option, given population sizes. Anyway, religion (and religion-like, belief based systems like communism) is responsible for an even greater death toll.

  • 18. Lord Lucan

    (21 September 2011, 02:05PM)  Complain about this comment

    "I hate governments. I loathe and despise them, all of them, even the good ones."

    Then Somalia would be a good place to live. I understand they have a shortage of financial hacks there.

  • 19. Orb

    (21 September 2011, 02:05PM)  Complain about this comment

    Hey Dom, when's the last time you applied for a mortgage? Did you add in all the fees involved in exiting and entering and translate that into the interest rate for the period? Many basic rates (before fees) are already at 6%+.

    Couldn't agree with you more on governments - when somebody demands the money/valuables I'm carrying from me at gunpoint, it's called robbery. At least I have options: die trying to keep it, or minimise the amount I'm carrying. There are no options when it comes to the government... so it's got to be worse than robbery!

    And is there therapy for such a traumatic experience? It's not just obesity that's killing us with ill health, it's the government too!!

  • 20. Chris

    (21 September 2011, 02:32PM)  Complain about this comment

    Didn't someone once say about governments ' They'll borrow and borrow until they can borrow no more, then they'll print' . This is what they are doing now with QE to buy their own debt and why the rates of return on the bonds are so low. What is the percentage of the bond sales that are actually being bought by foreign bidders? 10%? Less?
    Note how the UK public is being softened up again for another burst of QE. Need to sell more bonds do we Merv? When will this end? When the white middle classes are out rioting on the streets? Think on that MPC.

  • 21. Mike

    (21 September 2011, 02:34PM)  Complain about this comment

    A genuine question - can someone explain to me why the bank of england interest rate cannot be held at that low level (0.5%) for a long time / indefinitely?
    Obviously governments do not want to see (some) voters in pain if they raise them - as they default on mortgages and the property market crashes to back to more sensible levels (yes please!) but what's the downside to these low rates economically? i.e for every debit there's usually a credit and for every loser there's usually a winner - so who's losing - just pensioners and people on fixed incomes seeing their wealth eroded by inflation?
    Are any other problems caused by long term very low interest rates?

  • 22. shipitin

    (21 September 2011, 02:40PM)  Complain about this comment

    @Lord Lucan.
    Somalia, so that's where you have been hiding!

  • 23. shipitin

    (21 September 2011, 02:44PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic, do you lay out your "end game" anywhere. I am particularly interested to sort out the rivalling pressures on the PM prices when TSHTF : down from competing high interest rates but up from currency and bond bubble collapse?

  • 24. FiatMan

    (21 September 2011, 04:06PM)  Complain about this comment

    Total rubbish. Money doesn't "flee", it just changes hands. Whomever gets left with the baby gets just 0.5% so they're better off with bonds. If govt can't raise funds to redeem a bond through regular taxation it prints the rest effectively taxing everyone through currency devaluation. The bond market will not burst. Money is primarily a means of transaction and only secondarily a store a wealth. Use it or lose it.

  • 25. Dr Keith Anderson

    (21 September 2011, 05:44PM)  Complain about this comment

    The chart of the bank rate over the last three centuries can be found on page 3 of Church House's Quarterly Review Spring 2011. Like Merryn Somerset Webb, I have it on my office wall.

  • 26. JohnnyC

    (21 September 2011, 05:54PM)  Complain about this comment

    GOLD IS GREAT HEDGE AGAINST STERLING!
    Who cares that gold has dropped 6% in exactly one month measured in USD - it's only dropped 1% in GBP.
    And better still it has risen 20% in USD and 22% in GBP in the last three months. I'm livid that I didn't weigh in. Fortunately, this trade is only just warming up with the US over 14tn in debt and will be 20tn in 2015. That number truly shows how the fiat is dying.
    Gold is no more useful now than it ever has been throughout monetary history. It's just that fiat is becoming more useless.

  • 27. JohnnyC

    (21 September 2011, 06:02PM)  Complain about this comment

    Arthur - if you are correct about USD debt issued equal 400m when gold was USD 25 an ounce then the debt would allow you to purchase 16m ounces of gold. Let's say that's the security against the USD debt.
    It is believed that the US have not bought any gold for a very long time. The debt level is forecast to reach 20 trillion by 2015.
    If they used the same quantity of gold to secure the country's debt in 2015 (let's face they have not bought) then the value of that gold will be USD 1,250,000 per ounce. That's right 1 million + 250,000 per ounce.

    I know it's a very simple way of looking at things and holes can be picked but gold is an element that does not tend to change and has always had an intrinsic value. Let's face it, if you rock up in India with a few gold coins you will buy a lot more than a fistfull of dollars!

  • 28. Lou

    (21 September 2011, 06:53PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dominic writes so clearly and so well and his articles are a pleasure to read. Even though some of his views are sometimes controversial no one else seems to have the honesty and courage to write as he does. Dominic Frisby for Prime Minister I say.

  • 29. kevin Boyd

    (21 September 2011, 08:40PM)  Complain about this comment

    great article again Dominic,

    agree with most of what you say although unfortunately I will mention I dont own any gold and even though gold is perhaps not yet in a bubble, still the idea of spending current spot + premium price rates leaves you tearful.
    Im still thinking/hoping that the POG will come down (albeit temporarily) when the bond bubble starts to burst and real interest rates are somewhat positive of the order of 2-5%; atleast history has shown this does reduce the POG but then it skyrockets as even real interest rates skyrocket just prior.
    Should I get some now or maybe best to wait until that painful period dawns on us?
    Also dont forget all those paper traders who will be cashing in, that should bring the price down somewhat and as other assets sell of in a bid to get as much liquidity as possible at a crisis moment?
    Should I wait..?

  • 30. Slimjim2

    (21 September 2011, 10:11PM)  Complain about this comment

    Hi Dominic
    Excellent article. I was wondering that if your thesis comes to pass and the bond market blows up and there is a transfer of bond cash to gold (presumeably amongst other "hard" assets) - what happens when that bubble bursts? What next after that? What happened in 1980? Are we back into blue chip shares and a new bull market in shares?

  • 31. Dr Bob

    (22 September 2011, 03:14PM)  Complain about this comment

    The Gold bubble will burst before the bond bubble not after! Apart from that, another excellent piece of "analysis".

  • 32. sipptrader

    (22 September 2011, 07:26PM)  Complain about this comment

    IMO, banks will continue to be downgraded and bailed out by the printing of more currency and newly created bond debt, but eventually they will realise that they need to hold large amounts of gold, because gold has no counter party risk and this core asset will be the foundation of their balance sheet assets. Therefore their downgrades can be upgraded and they can carry on as before- gambling and making obsene profits (or losses being bailed out by governments and central banks) and maintaining power. That is when the gold price(POG), will go ballistic and they will be prepared to offer any amount of their rubbish currency(electronically created out of thin air) for your gold and gold shares. Of course they will own the majors who will in turn buy the juniors who will be buying the explorers etc. and then the banks will have all the gold and powers as allways and you will be left with their worthless and less currency.

  • 33. Jimbo

    (23 September 2011, 12:20PM)  Complain about this comment

    You trace all ills back to government. Well done, but why stop there? You can probably trace a lot of them back to the source if you left your biases at the door.

    I'd like to see gold used as money but not for it to be legal tender. In a gold-based economy there is no need for legal tender because an ounce of gold is always an ounce of gold. Legal Tender states what cannot be refused in payment of debt. If I owe you an ounce of gold and offer you an ounce of gold there does not need to be a law forcing you to accept it. If I owe you a dollar and offer you what I say is a dollar then you need a reference to see what a dollar is. It could be a coin with $1 stamped on it and containing 1g of gold, or it could be the same but with 2g of gold. With legal tender, it's up to the government to decide how much gold I owe you.

  • 34. Toadfreefrog

    (23 September 2011, 01:26PM)  Complain about this comment


    Governments help people like you, Dominic, to feel important and useful: it creates the environment that you need to do the job you enjoy and get paid for...
    If you think you can live and prosper in a world without governments, you will have to find groups of very honest and disciplined people to join with (good luck!), or opt out and become a monk...
    As for gold as standard: a useless metal stored in the hope that we will all want to buy it... But only the rich can and will. Therefore, there is already a surplus of gold in the world.

  • 35. JohnnyC

    (23 September 2011, 10:17PM)  Complain about this comment

    Dr.Bob - explain why the gold bubble will burst before the bond bubble.

Leave a comment

This will be the name displayed with your comment.

This helps us verify comments are genuine. It will not be displayed anywhere on the site and is stored confidentially.

Please keep your comment within 1,000 characters and relevant to the main topic. We encourage healthy debate, but we don't allow insults or bad language. Anything off topic or unpleasant, we'll remove. Enjoy the conversation! Thank you.

captcha To prevent spam-related comments please enter the characters shown in the 'Captcha' box to the left.

By leaving a comment you accept our terms and conditions.


FREE - MoneyWeek's daily investment emailJohn Stepek

Our free daily email, Money Morning, is an informative and enjoyable analysis of what's going on in the markets. Written by our Editor, John Stepek, and guest contributors.
Sign up FREE to Money Morning here.

>